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 Post subject: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
I am starting the programI again. I have been stuck in abstinence and can not seem to start on recovery. I am being held back by an inability to be truly transparent in every thought or action I have. I still have a very deep hatred towards myself for what my life has been and what I have turned my wifes life into. I still have trouble being sensitive and compassionate and just being able to listen. I still want to crawl into a hole and die when my wife and I talk. All I hear when she talks is the bad things I have done, and how what I did has damaged her life. I still do not have something to sustain me in tough times. The only action I have now where I used to have PnM is sleep, all I want to do is sleep. I need to find something to do with consistancy that makes me feel good about myself. I still can not separate myself from my addict because I cannot sepparate myself from my wifes pain.
Maybe a second time through the lessons doing it as a part of my life (like breathing) something will change in my core and make me something that I can be proud of. I do not want my old life but honestly I never want to talk about it again but know I have to if I am ever to keep myself alive or to be happy. My plan this time is not just to do the lessons and move on. I will need to read others peoples insights, comment, log and journal. My wife has been able to "Validate herself" with a lot of things she has read about other addicts and comparing them to my behavior so maybe I can learn from them as well.
I am happy with my wife but I hate myself and where I have taken us I have a habbit of throwing away everything positive that I have done still. I was proud of my abstinence until I found out that it was not recovery, then it no longer was something to be pround of. If I am in a good mood talking about the umbrella of problems porn has caused my wife and I will completely take me to someplace dark and bad. Something is wrong in my recovery and in my soul. I pray the new strategy works :t:

I hope we raised the money


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
Some things I did learn the first time around:
1. This is never ending. The process of recovery from this addiction a process that is very much like your heart beating. It will stop when it stops.
2. If P&M was something that made you feel good for some reason, you cannot just stop it and expect to feel good. You have to replace those activities with something else that makes you feel good. That replacement must be guilt and shame free and just as accessable as P&M was.
3. Expectations are BAD. Expect nothing in your recovery. Expect nothing from others about your recovery. By having expectations of your recovery you will be let down when thouse things are not met. Recovery will probably not be seen from too close. You will only see it from far away.
4. Emotions are BAD, that is extremes of emotions are bad. Feel too sad and your addict is more likely to seek instant gratification. Weather it is P&M, self mutilation, self punnishment or suicidal fantasies. Feel extremely happy and you run the risk of being let down by bad news or the reminder that you are an addict who has hurt yourself and others. Emotional moderation is the key.
5. Be honest with yourself and what you have done. I have damaged my life and my wifes life. I have caused her stress to the point where cancer has manifested in her body and she is now struggling with that. What more can I do that is worse than that?! Just admit and accept what I did. I can not change the past, I can only make the future worse if I do not change the core of my being into something better than I am or ever have been.
6. My thinking is warped and faulty. Why should I get frustrated by not being understood or feel unheard when I am speaking gibberish. Realize my thoughts do not make sence to anyone else but me. I should not get upset if I do not get things, I am not emotionally sane.

DAve


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3907
Location: UK
Hi Dave
recognising that you have not moved from abstinence to recovery is not a failure
it is success
now the thing to do is recognise why?
is it you still hanging on to your addiction
is it guilt and shame that makes you feel that you need this crutch?
is it ???????????????

spend some time thinking
re visit your initial reasons for being here
look inwardly and remember that your recovery is for you
if your wife still has pain as she most likely will, try to isolate her and that pain from your recovery, not easy I agree but perhaps reflect that a you in abstinence or active addiction is not good for any relationship , it simply is unfair and will not last

I started again and the second time around was so much more eye opening
perhaps because you cannot un learn what you already know
brave and hopefully a great decision
go get it. you and she deserve it

remember it is not a race it is a journey

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
Lesson 1 Exercises:

A. Three keys to establishing a successful foundation for permanent change in early recovery are:

1) actively committing yourself to change. Since this is the second time at the program I have a lot more tools than the last time. I can read other's posts, I can journal, I can comment on posts and take an active part at learning how to be a better person who is not controlled by emotion.

2) not allowing guilt/shame to sabotage your commitment to change.
I am working on ideas on things that I can do to make me feel better about myself. I have an interest in Tai Chi and meditation as well as golfing with my father. I hope I can find something to do that makes me stop hating myself, something to be proud of. I see myself still as an addict who has destroyed a life and continues to hurt someone with every thing I say.

3) allowing yourself time to change.
It has been two years since my secret life became known. I am well entrenched in abstinence but I still can not deal with my emotions. I despise them in fact. I need to find something that makes me feel good and allow that time to work on me. My time is short however as my wife is quickly loosing patience with me.

1) I am tired of my life as it is.
2) I am tired of hating myself
3) I want to feel close to my family, friends and my inner child.
4) I want to be seen as grateful and honest.
5) I want to feel and be trusted.
6) I want to have the love of life that my addiction and depression is robbing me of
7) I want to be able to look myself in the eye and say I have done all I can do.
8) I want to no longer be a tool of my emotions
9) I do not want to see life through shit colored glases.
10) I want to truly feel happy before I die.


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:41 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 3907
Location: UK
Hi Dave
a quick point on your reasons for change
consider making three of the positive as positive reasons as you well know stand the test of time that much better

Quote:
1) I am tired of my life as it is.
2) I am tired of hating myself

9) I do not want to see life through shit colored glases.



could be:
I will totally change my life so that it it provides me with happiness, satisfaction and health
I will love myself after making those required changes looking forwards rather than backwards
I will see my life as it is a worthwhile adventure gifted to me

just a thought

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
Do not confuse happiness with seeking pleasure
stay healthy keep safe
Coach Kenzo


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
I spent some time reading the partners forum. I feel so sorry for what I haved done to my wife and feel so sad for all of those who hurt still. I also feel fear about myself. I can not put my finger on the exact cause but my wife and I have not been getting along at all recently and I am becomming very afraid.

I am afraid of hurting her more or saying stupid things. I have very faulty thinking and can not seem to get past my negative attitude. I am constantly scared of saying something stupid or insencitive and upsetting her and guess what...I always do. She is an incredible woman who has stayed very supportive through all this mess and I still cannot seem to get it through my head that I have a wonderful life. She has encouraged me to get out of the house and do things, but I talk myself out of in most of the time because I am afraid she will think I was doing something I was not supposed to, eg. scanning, smoking, drinking. I am scared to be intimate. I am BLESSED to have a willing partner and I am scared to innitiate intimacy. I have tried to relax and just let things happen but my mind always gets in the way and I talk myself out of something or just give up. I am always second guessing myself when I say things and usually end up saying something very wrong or not saying something in the right way.

I just needed to get this off my chest. I wish I knew an answer for me to help her.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:55 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 1626
Hi Dave,

Glad to see you are giving it another go from the beginning. I can tell that you learned a lot the first time around, but still have much growth ahead of you.

Kenzo already got to it, but I was also going to suggest making your reasons for change positive. For example, you mention Tai chi, meditation, and golfing with your dad as things you would like to do -- why not incorporate those into your reasons for change? Reasons for change can be pretty much anything.

Quote:
I feel so sorry for what I haved done to my wife and feel so sad for all of those who hurt still.


Well, just remember, it is important not to be overwhelmed by such feelings. For every instant you spend feeling sad about the past, you take away that moment from focusing on the present and future. It is good to admit your feelings about the past and really feel them...you just want to make sure that you are not allowing them to become an obstacle to having a happy present.

Quote:
I also feel fear about myself. I can not put my finger on the exact cause


Quote:
I am afraid of hurting her more or saying stupid things. I have very faulty thinking and can not seem to get past my negative attitude. I am constantly scared of saying something stupid or insensitive and upsetting her


Is this the source of your fear? Find the source of that fear and negative attitude...are you afraid of upsetting her or afraid more about her reaction? Is a fear of lacking control over your actions, or just being unsure of yourself? Lots of us struggle with fears of losing control. Remember, part of recovery is a learning process. As part of the learning process, you may do things that end up being the wrong decision...but what is important that you were doing them with the right intention. That is how you learn. But you can't learn if you just stay in fear about doing the wrong thing (and I understand...this is something I've struggled with a lot).

Quote:
She has encouraged me to get out of the house and do things, but I talk myself out of in most of the time because I am afraid she will think I was doing something I was not supposed to, eg. scanning, smoking, drinking.


Have you told her about this fear of yours? That would be a good step to being more open and intimate. Why are you afraid to be intimate?

Quote:
I am always second guessing myself when I say things and usually end up saying something very wrong or not saying something in the right way.


This is also part of the learning process. The majority of us struggling with this addiction tend to be obsessive/perfectionistic iin our thinking...so we have built up fantasies within about "saying something just the right way" or doing things perfectly. Because of this, we then compare our fantasy to real life, which rarely shapes up, so then we're constantly disappointed with ourselves. It's more all or nothing thinking. So what I'd encourage you to do is drop your ideas about what the "right way" is. Most likely, this just puts more pressure on yourself and increases your anxiety which increases your second guessing and paralyzes you more. I've been there. Just act on your values; act with the right intention and be true to your heart. As you develop, you may look back and see different ways you would have acted that would have been better and more efficient. But that's okay -- that's just life! And as you become more clear in your identity and your values, your actions and intentions will become more clear and more fluid.

Keep going, Dave. I can tell that you are a very caring and kind person at heart; you can show the world that person! I also particularly think that the meditation you say you're interested in will help you deal with some of the fear surrounding your emotions which will be of great benefit. You can do it! :g:

Boundless

_________________
"If you cannot find the truth right where you are, where do you expect to find it?" - Dogen

"Be a lamp unto yourself." - Buddha

"The obstacle is the path."


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:18 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
Thank you coach for the reply. I am my own worst enemy right now but I know I can do better.

I really wanted to give my wife a message last night. I know it is something she enjoys and it is very relaxing for me as well. As I was doing this I realized that we have stopped dating for a long time. Dating when everything was new and you were dewy eyed all the time. Then I started thinking when I kind of lost that feeling. Then I realized it was right about the time I really started to fall for her. THEN I realized it was my self sabotage again.

I went through a bad break up when I was younger. I swore to myself that I would never love anybody or care that much for a person ever again. I told myself that if I ever found myself falling for someone I would break it off right then and there to avoid getting hurt again. I managed to go for another fifteen years and a few relationships without ever opening up or feeling intimate with another person. Consiously I wanted to be with her but subconsiously it was my promise to myself not to get hurt again.

My addiction really manifested at this point in my life. Isolating myself from others and depending only on myself for comfort and companionship. Alcohol P/M were ways of keeping myself locked away from others and not having to ever expose myself. I am slowly learning how to open up and ask for help with what I need. I am looking forward to being dewy eyed again someday. :ex:


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:12 am 
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Recovery Coach

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 1626
Hi Dave,

Quote:
I went through a bad break up when I was younger. I swore to myself that I would never love anybody or care that much for a person ever again. I told myself that if I ever found myself falling for someone I would break it off right then and there to avoid getting hurt again.


It is important to remember not to punish yourself. You may feel like by never loving again, you are somehow atoning for that breakup...like you don't deserve love or to feel happy. But you definitely do. As well, you may initially avoid dealing with the hurt from a broken relationship...I think all people do that to some extent. However, if you never accept that hurt, process it, and move on, you will forever remain stuck and attached to the past. Accepting that hurt is part of being open to new love and new connections. The past is in the past, and you are now in the present. One can either continue holding onto the past...or start to be happy with what you have in the present. :g:

Quote:
I really wanted to give my wife a message last night. I know it is something she enjoys and it is very relaxing for me as well. As I was doing this I realized that we have stopped dating for a long time. Dating when everything was new and you were dewy eyed all the time.


Have you considered (if your partner is okay with the idea) maybe setting up a "date night," if you haven't done so in a long time. It was just an idea I had after reading your post...where you plan an entire date night for the two of you and then take her out. Obviously, you would want to set up some agreed-to boundaries beforehand (such as no talk about recovery or addiction, etc.) but something like that could be fun, focus on the positives of your relationship, and go a ways to getting "dewy-eyed" again. :s:

Boundless

_________________
"If you cannot find the truth right where you are, where do you expect to find it?" - Dogen

"Be a lamp unto yourself." - Buddha

"The obstacle is the path."


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
Yes we have set up a date night. The first one was a total disaster as I got defensive for no reason...and things just went down hill.
Date nights came about because I am not a planner. I just tend to do things as they come and only really show up for work on time and then come home. I usually do not make plans, this I think comes from being a bachelor for so much of my life and growing up as a latchkey kid raised by a single dad. I was not expected to do anything or plan anything, as long as I got my work done on time (Before he got home).

We had a huge misunderstanding because she was asking for me to make plans with her but all I heard was "I am not giving her enough time." I only leave the house once a week and to go to work so I could not see why she needed more time, I am never away. I could not see that she was asking me to "Make plans with her." After a few hours of horrible feelings I finally got what she was asking and have started planning our time out in advance or at least I am starting to, and fill free time with some things that we can do together that makes us feel good.

I still feel alot of apprehension because there is still so much uncertainty between us. I am trying to be positive and do things that I think will make me feel better about myself so I stop bringing her down but I still struggle sometimes.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
My Vision.

I want to make Recovry a lifelong process and not a destination. This devotion to recovery will lead to an open understanding of myself and a path away from self hatred. I want this path to lead to open intimacy with my wife. I want to feel as if I am her friend, inspiration and her lover. I want to lead my life full of choices away from compulsion. I will have many activities that I can do for an emotional boost. I want to make meditation and prayer a part of my everyday life. I want to make activities with my family a regular event. I will break 90 on 18 holes before 2013. I will make room for my hobies and continue what my Grandfather and I started. I want to be seen as transparent and free from deceit or omission. I want to feel happy with myself. I want to feel like I have value. I want to be remembered by those who truly know me as a person who overcame his obsticle and not one who fell in front of it.

Thank you

My wife and I watched a movie called "Seven days in Utopia." It was a golf theamed movie that also had a very strong spiritual message. How to bury the lies that we have told ourselves for all our lives and to move on to believe different things that are possible. I suggest anyone looking for a little inspiration to give it a go.


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 Post subject: Re: DaveK Starting again
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:25 am
Posts: 200
My restart was done again because I have not been being truly transparent. I have been omitting things I have been feeling, temptations, actions and urges and ideas. I have not been sexually compulsive but I have not been open about my thoughts and ideas. If I had feelings about acting out and did not, I did not share. I only shared things related to the positive side of recovery :no: :no: :no:
I was afraid of being seen as a failure once again for not doing everything the way it should be done. I was prideful and it has made things much worse. I have begun to share any thoughts that I have. In the past if I had a thought but broke the chain and changed direction I considered that enough. :e: :no: !D Now I know that I have to share that too. I need to share it so it can be analyzed by another and I can be held accountable. In need to get rid of my pride and any boundries I think I deserve and be open to anything at any time. This is required for this program which if done right and wholeheartedly will cause me to feel good about myself, right. Well I got a lot out of it the first time but I still hate myslef. By doing it again without pride, (I cant look much worse) I maybe will pick up what I missed.

Anyway here are my values this time.
Lesson 3 VALUES
1. Wanting to understand my feelings.
2. Sharing my feelings
3. Being open to others opinions about my feelings
4. Acknowledging feelings I have even though I don’t like them
5. I want to talk
6. I want to share what I feel and believe with others
7. I want to be okay with criticism
8. I value sobriety
9. I do not drink to get drunk
10. I do not drink to feel better
11. I do not drink to feel different
12. I want to be healthy
13. I do not use tobacco
14. I treat my body with respect
15. I live to further my goals
16. I live in the present
17. I keep my mind on my current task
18. I have only one personality
19. I do not hide my actions
20. I do in private what I would do in public
21. I do not keep secrets about me
22. I will share my feelings
23. I can be depended on
24. I will do what I say I will do
25. I will not do what I say I will not do
26. I am proud of what I am
27. I appreciate what I have done with my life
28. I see the value in things around me
29. I see the value in myself
30. I love the people in my life
31. I let the people in my life love me if they choose to
32. I am willing to love and be loved
33. I accept kind words
34. I accept compliments
35. I want to feel intimacy
36. I am able to feel vulnerable
37. I appreciate my sexuality
38. I feel good about wanting sex
39. I feel good about my sexual activity
40. I have faith in God
41. I pray for help everyday
42. I live my life to be good in Gods eyes
43. I love my friends and family
44. I show love and appreciation
45. I provide words of affirmation and perform deeds of service
46. I appreciate life
47. I thank God each day for my life
48. I thank my family for being in my life
49. I want to be good at my job
50. I focus on performing my job well
51. I provide a good example at my job
52. I want to be a good father
53. I provide support
54. I will not judge
55. I will provide encouragement
56. I will be a good example to my children
57. I show love to my children
58. I talk to my children
59. I want to be a good husband
60. I provide encouragement to my wife
61. I support my wife
62. I show my wife that I love her and appreciate her
63. I value her opinions
64. I support and value her feelings
65. I strive to understand her feelings
66. I strive to put her feelings above my own
67. I live a life of gratitude
68. I do something active everyday that makes me feel good about myself
69. I am positive about my life and my future


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 Post subject: Checking in
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:34 pm 
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I went and spoke to my therapist about the recent developments in my recovery. My being stuck in abstinence and then not being completely transparent, trying to rationalize things etc. I was honest about my ideas, stating that I thought that I was still doing good if I did not act out i was doing okay. I did affirm that I knew I was not following the program completely because I was not disclosing everytime I needed to take a break in my thoughts to avoid the start or hint at compulsion.

I also woke up after a few horrible days of discussion with my wife. The continued pain that I cause from not following the program or being completely transparent has taken its toll. Today I woke up different. I woke up and thought that the damage is done and I can not look too much worse in her eyes. I really have nothing to loose and everything to gain If I just throw myself in all the way. I convinced myself that I was not going to get in a bad mood no matter what. We then got through a breakfast and a snack while talking like grown ups and I stil feel pretty good. I came home and did my meditation and I am still alive. There is still hope out there :g:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:43 pm 
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8. I value sobriety
12. I want to be healthy
18. I have only one personality
19. I do not hide my actions
28. I see the value in things around me
35. I want to feel intimacy
39. I feel good about my sexual activity
41. I pray for help everyday
62. I show my wife that I love her and appreciate her
67. I live a life of gratitude
68. I do something active everyday that makes me feel good about myself
69. I am positive about my life and my future

I feel pretty good about most of this list. I think it is something to build upon. There are a lot of things that I have not done in my life that have led me to this point. I think some items on this list would have changed the way I turned out if they would have been a part of my life before. Living a life of gratitude and feeling good about myself probably should have been two things I have practiced my whole life. Something happened along the way that made me feel unworthy and to dislike what and who I was. This led to resentment towards others, myself and women. I have managed to do pretty well considering I was only investing part of myself to my present and future.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Proactive Action Plans 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Posts: 200
One of the biggest mistakes perpetuated by many in today's recovery community is the notion that addiction is to be managed. That the primary weapons in battling addiction are avoidance, reaction and giving up responsibility. You are taught to avoid triggers.

Wow, I read this a long time ago when I did the program for the first time. Avoidance kept me stuck in abstinence. I did not ever think of doing proactive things that took the place of my compulsions. I just sat with the emotions and let them boil over until they came out in self hate and negative thoughts and attitudes.

But unless you are ultimately able to apply these insights and skills within the context of a healthy life, they will serve as little more than a temporary escape from your addiction.

A healthy life to me is now a life that is full of potential triggers. To notice a trigger and move on and not let the trigger get the best of you mood is a good goal I think. to accept the things around you as part of life but no longer a part of your life is okay. Keep positive and think "Is this what I want, is this within my value system."

They can take the reactive road to healing: resting, medication, allowing their pain response to dictate their health. Or, they can take a dual-approach: complimenting the above with a proactive regimen of exercise, stretching and developing the surrounding healthy tissue. This is what proactive action plans do for a person in recovery: they strengthen the healthy tissue.

Abstinence for me was my reactive action plan. By not doing things I used to do, I was reacting to what my life had become based on my past. It was very passive and not much work had to be done. My main reaction to stress created by triggers was to avoid them. This caused me to give up a lot of things I used to enjoy. My reaction to the stress this created was to hate myself and still be negative about my life. The physical reaction I had was extreme fatigue. I did find however that a good nap will make me feel just as good as the old acting out behaviors did. Too bad I can't take naps all the time. !D

68. I do something active everyday that makes me feel good about myself
1. Get out of the house. I have been making plans with my Father to play golf every other week. Golf is something I have enjoyed since I was young, but never took the time to get good. Every time I played I would ask myself, "Why don't I do this more." Well I am going to do it more! It will also give me the chance to get to spend time with my father. We seem to get along a lot better since I quit drinking and we stopped talking about politics :g:
2. Get back to my hobbies. My Grandfather and I got into building model ships. Not the plastic kind you buy at a toy store but the hugely intricate wood models that take hundreds of hours to complete. I kind of let this get away and stopped doing this thing that I enjoyed. I have taken the steps to clear out a workspace in the garrage and have started to collect my supplies. It will give me a chance to sit quietly alone and do something with my hands that make me feel good.
3. Moving Meditation. I have tried to meditate several times because I heard a lot about how relaxing and mind calming it could be. The problem for me has been that if I sit down for more than a few minutes I fall asleep. I found that Tai Chi and Qi Gong are exelent at making my mind calm and I have to stand and move to do them. I have only started these programs but I like them more than I ever thought I would.

Part two in a little bit.


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