Recovery Nation

I know this topic has been touched upon before but my ex recently said to me "if you love someone you would not harm them"

of course she is correct, but as a sex addict we have skewed views and values
without making excuses I denied the fact that I was harming anyone when acting out

I left the love of my life in the real world when I stepped into my fantasy world where the only love I had was the selfish me, she knew nothing of my other world so she could not be hurt nor harmed, there were no consequences when I was exhibiting or having sex with a stranger, then came the guilt which brought on more denial

I believe that a sex addict is capable of love and this is demonstrated as recovery continues
When we realise the damage and our remorse and empathy kick in, the love we have comes to the fore and flourishes

so what do others think
can a sex addict really truly love whilst still acting out?

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
stay healthy keep safe
Kenzo

Seems like it is a selfish love, wanting to please yourself regardless of what it would do to the ones you love if they found out.
Not saying this in an accusing tone...but you asked. I know there are times I have been selfish. Usually it is when I feel unloved and believe I can't trust him so what does it matter? He is just playing a game with me so I might as well make myself happy since it isn't going to happen with him, even though it could be something that would build a wall between us. I just want to make myself happy. I wonder if that is what it is like for the SA when they act out, or any addict.
When I realized what he did and that he knew what I would go through if he was caught it was a very hard lesson for me. I couldn't pretend I didn't see the truth. It was staring me in the face so I couldn't ignore it. Whenever the consequences weighed on me I thought about it as proof that he hadn't taken me seriously and instead of feeling protected and cared for by the man I loved, I had given my heart to a man who didn't value it as a delicate gift to be handled with care. Rather he was juggling it in the air like a gumball machine novelty toy every time he acted out. You can't juggle things in the air without dropping them at some point so he was willing to let that happen for the immediate gratification he was getting. I don't think he thought it out that honestly and clearly but not thinking about what you are doing is just another way of saying that people in your life aren't more important than whatever is driving you to choose acting out.
So I guess my opinion is no, I don't believe so because the addiction is really the love of your life if you are a SA who hasn't chosen to change.

Hi in his strength
thanks for your comment but can I advise you regarding cross posting
please see the attached link
http://www.recoverynation.com/bulletinb ... =2&t=17952
I would never discourage posting and believe it is a key part of the process of recovery / healing
however we need to be aware of and comply with the forum rules, they are tried and tested and are there to protect the whole RN community
as said thanks for the comment but do please refer to the link

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
stay healthy keep safe
Kenzo

Kenzo -

I was hoping more addicts would respond to your question, as I am extremely interested in this one. I've pondered this question myself numerous, numerous times over the years, and I have yet to achieve a satisfactory answer for myself.

I've often said how much I love my wife. I've said it to her, to myself, and to others since we were dating. Isn't the highest form of love to give oneself to another, and to put another's needs ahead of my own? How can I say I love my wife on the one hand, and act in a way that is so contrary to love? How can I say I love her and then lie to her? Again, and again, and again, and again, many times over many years???

Now that we're looking at life on the other side of this addiction, we've both (obviously) changed since we started dating in college. Now, I often ask myself: Do I love her? Or, do I love the idea of the person she used to be? Am I capable of "real" love?

I think, for me, the answer to the question is this: I DO love my wife. I have loved her since I told her I loved her that very first time. But, my idea of love was very immature and self-serving. I am thankful that she has chosen to stay with me through so many years of bullshit, and is now giving me a chance to learn to love in an emotionally mature way. I think we can grow to a greater understanding of what love really is.

As Tim said, I think that the "love" addicts believe they feel is a selfish love, which mostly benefits them emotionally, and isn't impacted (in their own delusional minds) by such other things as trust, honesty, intimacy, self-respect...etc. It's love when it's making them feel how they want to feel...but not love when they have to deal with other aspects of their relationships that aren't so immediately appealing and gratifying.

However, I don't see any reason why addicts aren't capable of real love, if they're able to re-learn what love means, which comes with learning a lot of emotional maturity and some of the other concepts that form love that I mentioned above. To say that we can't love because we're addicts is to insist on the notion that we're somehow defective and that the addiction is you, when we clearly know from being here that it isn't. However, I think that it's true what Kenzo said that a sex/love addict can't truly love while they're acting out, because they don't understand what love is. Their perception and boundaries on the subject have been distorted. But, some of that love may be real and they may determine this after going through recovery, that the feelings were real. It was just too tangled up with the addiction to

However, just to stir the pot, I do have something to say about this statement:



Now, it depends on what you mean here by "harm." Obviously, it is true that something on the scale of hiding a sex addiction or other traumas wouldn't classify as real love. As inhisstrength said, real love is unselfish and would not hurt someone on such a deep level.

However, it is also important not to fall into all-or-nothing thinking here. The goal here is not to be perfect, but rather to be honest and realistic. In all relationships, even if the people are healthy, they do things that upset or irritate each other all the time. I think that is a reality of relationships, even healthy ones. In fact, it seems like it would be quite unnatural for people never to conflict in a relationship, because they're both human and have their own beliefs and perceptions. The difference is that healthy people do not deceive and take responsibility for their actions while accepting consequences (which takes into account the other person), while someone with an addiction (or even someone just acting purely selfishly) acts in a way that best maintains their own comfort or own self-interest, without considering others. I do think that in general, becoming less selfish will lead to healthier relationships.

Hopefully what I said there is not misinterpreted. I in no way am implying that any of the lies told to cover up an addiction or any of the harm done was justifiable under the guise of "I'm not perfect" or "I really love you." It's not. What I am saying is that life cannot easily be categorized into right and wrong at all times, so there will be instances where you upset others, including the ones you love, even when you're acting on your values. That doesn't mean you don't love someone; it is just a reality of life. But there is a huge difference between that mindset (ie. taking responsibility for your actions and the consequences, accepting reality, thinking about others, making choices based on values)...and a mindset where you're acting completely out of your own emotional self-interest without any concern for others.

Good discussion.

Boundless

_________________
"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell."

"Be a lamp unto yourself."

- Buddha

Hi coach Tim


thanks for these words I can relate to them
I posted in my recovery thread

My value of love

When I met my second (now ex wife) it was love at second sight
It was like walking into a wall , it hit me like a rolling truck
I could not concentrate I was nervous when I was not with her or if I missed a call
I was needing her (not in a sexual way but I did stop acting out)
I was in my 40,s and in love for the first time since being 17


Then after a particular incident about 5 years after meeting I went back into my addiction
I realise now that I went back because I never left I was in abstinence not recovery, but I was in denial that I was addicted

That love got put on one side ( stupid selfish Kenzo messing with lives and emotions of those who you hurt) The addict in me put a cover over the love that shines but that is no excuse because the decision was concious and mine, however I see the light was dimmed but the addict ans selfish Kenzo could not extinguish that light

That is why I value love
I should have valued the woman not the emotion

Now 27 months post D day and 21 months into RN transitioning from recovering to post recovery (I will likely always be an addict but not an active one) I see and feel that love of former times,
I do feel love, and I like it
I love her and always will but need to accept she has choices and I did betray that love and that wonderful person

Hi coach B





I mean really cause damage to a loved one and a friend by betrayal and deceit
I mean destruction of a life's dream, which now can be viewed as an illusion
I mean destruction of fond memories
I mean taking away her ability to trust men
I mean breaking her self confidence in her sexuality and womanhood



I agree with you regarding life and relationships in general but when one has fulfuilled his selfish needs at the expense of another over a long period of time it becomes easy to categorise and thus raise the question

can a sex addict really love?

Like you and Coach T I believe we can but I can understand partners thinking not
as always thanks for the input
really interesting thread

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
stay healthy keep safe
Kenzo

Sorry I responded to this. I don't know what happened but I thought this and another post was open to both sides.

Hi inhisStrength,

I think this post and the other were on Both Sides Welcome, and CoachCheryl changed them. Like a ninja. So, don't fret!

B

_________________
"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell."

"Be a lamp unto yourself."

- Buddha

ahh.... thanks
I have enough reasons to think I am going crazy...ha ha

Yes, sex addicts can and do love. We can love profoundly and deeply. We can love our parents, children, siblings, wives, and etc. We can also be profoundly ill while loving them and our love can be blunted and deformed.

What I think your partner really means is can a sex addict have true intimacy. Intimacy is like praying to God; its a connection that is profound and mysterious. I think you would struggle to have intimacy without a love but you can have love without intimacy just like you can love God without prayer.

Always remember, you are a beautiful human being, perfect in your imperfection. You are not a monster.