Recovery Nation

Update (a general summary):

Over the past month my husband has been doing a lot of work. Last week we went to the library where he was molested as a boy. He has been to this library several times since, but never with the intention of completing what happened, and never to the washroom where it happened. We walked to the general area where he would have been browsing the books when the stranger approached him. We went upstairs to where the man led my h to look at the porn mag that he had stashed between the books on the shelf. Then we went downstairs to the washroom. I waited outside as my husband went in. Later, we talked about the experience. He said he didn't really know what to do in there, so he stood where he would have stood, in the stall where the stranger molested him. He said that he had an urge to get out of there and just go do something that would make him feel normal, like go eat at a nice restaurant or something. This struck him becuase it highlighted how he pushes it to the back of him mind and then tries to cover it up with stuff that provides a pretense of normal. I say pretense because he really doesn't feel normal and is identified with "there is something is wrong with me". So, it is good that he recognized these compensatory behaviours, I think for the first time. He wants to go back again, but this time he will work on standing in his vision and values, instead of coming from "there is something wrong with me" which leads him to feel a need to fix, minimize or avoid/deny. The intention is that, if he is able to go in, find his vision and stand in it that he will be able to separate himself from the experience, accepting it as something that happened to him, not something that defines who he is. It is the lack of acceptance of what happened that is an obstacle to him accepting himself and creates a barrier for him in connecting to his vision. His vision is never palpable because he can't connect to it; it occurs to him as a bandaid, or an "in order to" (fix his past) which naturally doesn't feel authentic. But it's not that it isn't authentic for him~he created it~but he created it from "in order to" (compensate) and when he approaches it this way it never feels quite right, he feels like a fraud. Separating himself from his past in this way will lend itself to separating himself from his addiction. So, we are going again today. It is heavy work. We will go for a bike ride afterward (as we did last time) to release some energy and connect to the greater universe. I wanted to document this in my thread, for my own benefit as well as for those who choose to read.

Be well.

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

Friday of last week, just before my h was about to leave for work, I walked into our bedroom and had a feeling something was off (his demeanor~back to me, would not turn around to talk to me). So, I lingered and talked to him some more. Then I asked what was going on. He said “I’m just putting on my socks”. I asked him to turn around and so he did and said “I had a partial erection”. I asked if he was up to anything, told him I believe he must have been. He said he wasn’t (masturbating) so I inferred fantasy. He said no. Then he told me that he sometimes gets erections when he is excited about things not having to do with addiction. He said that because we were just planning a mini vacay that he got excited. He said it happens sometimes when we are shopping too. In my head I am thinking that he is lying. I figure he must be fantasizing in those situations. But, that is not the point of the problem (whether or not he was acting out) the problem is that he lied. His knee jerk reaction was first to deny, then to lie and then, when he knew he didn’t have a choice, he told me something about what was going on. Whether or not he told the truth is moot. I asked him why he has never told me that before (about the unsolicited erections) and he said he was embarrassed. I am your wife!!!

I told him that I don’t know anymore. I don’t know if I am here for him anymore. I am not willing to turn the kids lives upside down. I told him that I am completely removing myself from the equation emotionally. I am no longer holding out for possibility. I told him that maybe who I am for him is just the right ingredient to perpetuate his cycle. His cycle is a muddled and complicated one, so I won’t go into detail there. What was apparent, in the days that followed, is how attached to the outcome he is--how dependent on maintaining the status quo his stability was/is. I was (still) prepared to give him some time, to accept my departure (even though it wasn’t physical) and to bring himself back to his values, to what he says his values are.

On Monday he told me that he didn’t know which self is his real self (sounds familiar). On Tuesday or Wednesday I expressed my upset with him --he can withdraw from and ignore me all he wants, but it isn’t fair that he treat the kids the same. They don’t deserve it and he is the one who says that he is committed to them, to family... He knew I had an exam (today) and I was preparing all the meals, planning activities for them, or doing small things with them myself and he had not done one thing. The rest of the week he stayed low; withdrawn, avoidant. I stayed away from him too. I wondered if maybe he would open up after my exam, that maybe he was being considerate of my study time and didn’t want to put anything on me just before my exam. I even had hopes for the never-happened-before ground-breaking share to end all shares. I thought maybe this time he has really gotten it and will finally choose absolute honesty. I have a knowing that he has not been completely honest with me (besides the obvious and the discoveries I have made) and I was prepared. I completed my exam in less than the allotted time, and we didn’t have to stay the entire time...

When I got home there was a muffled “hello”. I couldn’t tell if it was upstairs or down. Benefit of the doubt~upstairs. Son in our room on the elliptical. Daughter and her two friends making a fort in the upstairs hallway. Sigh. Downstairs. Lo and behold, he’s walking into the kitchen as I walk down the stairs, frozen pizza in hand. Were you downstairs? Yah. What were you doing? Getting pizza. Huh. Certainly not a well planned meal, given it’s 5:30pm --the kids will be over-hungry by the time the pizza is ready. I went downstairs to feel out the vibe and realized that he had prepared his environment. Sigh. When I question him on it, silence. Denial. More silence. I tell him not to lie to me. I know. Eventually he confessed. It’s apparent to me that he had planned, which he denied by giving explanations of his use of time after having gotten home from work... He said he had just set up the wii with internet access. Much time passes in discussion. I don’t feel like going into the details of his water treading. It’s exhaustive. I have asked for an inhouse separation, and to see a mediator or someone to help us work out details, I want to have an agreement in place should divorce be the next step. I don’t feel that we can do it without mediation as his emotions are volatile.

Afterward he offered to get the internet channel off the wii again, that I shouldn't have to do it. I figured out he was worried about something. I am not good with electronics, so there is likely something that I am not in the know about, but what I do know is that he has done this since his "relapse" which begs the question--was it really a relapse, or was it an uninterrupted cycle, perhaps dragged out with longer periods of intermittent abstinence? Does it really matter anymore? The more I think about it, the more I think that the straw has broken the camels back. Next steps: clean up the spare room, make the bed, cuddle with daughter (son is out babysitting) and then--to bed! Tomorrow: research mediators; Monday: book appointment. Thankfully, I have the next 5 weeks to sort some of this mess out. Angry. Sad. Disappointed. I will be okay. And the kids will be okay. I won't lose myself and in staying true to me I will also stay true to my commitment for them.

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

We are to have our mediation meeting today. Friends whom we love and trust are going to mediate for us. I have my thoughts down on paper and I will take with me. H says he has some ideas, but I have the impression that he sees this as a venue to be heard, and to try to show me to be a cruel, heartless, rigid, uncompromising, critical, mean, b!t(#. During one of our last exchanges he said "You have no idea what it is to be me!". Lately, any time I say something like "this is an old conversation" or if I point out how unhealthy and without responsiblity these kinds of conversations are, he lashes out at me and says things like "This is why I can't do this anymore". He also told me to stop psychoanalyzing him....

I have committed to completing our holidays as planned. The last time we separated, I excluded him from our vacations and he was out of the house. I don't want to go that route again, unless absolutely necessary, as it potentially creates all kinds of instability and confusion for the kids, especially if we were to commit to trying again. I need to know that I am unequivocally and irrevokably done before I take any action that will cause this kind of instability.

Another scenario which would require physical separation would be if either of us are consistently unable to manage our emotions. I find that the worst times for me are at night, when I am laying down to sleep. Thoughts circle in my head and I have to create breaks, journal, meditate, remind myself of my commitments and values.... One night my husband made a remark to me about "my commitments" and instead of making me angry (that he would call me on anything) it calmed me right down. I am thankful for my values and commitments and thankful I have the vision to redirect, even if called out by my h!

What I hate most is ambiguity, uncertainty. I don't know if this agreement will create a sense of stability, or if the ambiguity comes from emotionality, the freshness of this situation, the depth and expanse of it. I am not angry with myself for believing he could do it (recover). I believe could, if he was committed. I am not angry with myself for believing he was committed, or for believing that he had a enough of a handle on his addiciton to be able to work through triggers and urges. I can't be angry at myself. He painted a picture. It was quite detailed and realistic. He was doing work. But, the work he was doing helped him to hide further. He was able to own his stuff almost immediately, or within a few hours. To me, this was a sign of growth and progress. But, his addiction runs deeper than his ability to manage his emotions on the surface. As I posted in the support forum, his story is still his reality, ingrained, entrenched, enmeshed with his identity. I can't do anything about this. Stating what I see and what I know is true about addiction is not an attack on his character, and I cannot take responsibility for his feelings that it is.

Where am I at? I am still working out the fine print of my vision, how I prioritize my values. I wish I knew how each option would turn out, and I would choose the one that causes the least damage, but all I can do is hypothesize given what I know, and things I continue to learn. I am tempted to maintain the family structure for a few years, until our youngest is old enough to understand. I communicate with my kids that any tension is not their fault, and that we are trying to maintain some stability for them. I worry how this will impact them in the long term, but anything will do will impact them, one way or another and it is not solely our actions, but a combination of factors (mostly having to do with who we are to them) that will have the greatest impact on their outcome. Well, there are individual factors too, related to their personal attributes, but as long as we provide loving support, and seek outside support as needed, I think that this will be the best we can do within the circumstances--practice open and honest, age appropriate communication, be there for them, provide support, I would add role model but what exactly are we role modelling? This is where I have to sort out my priorities. I have a friend who shared about a mutual friend whose mother continued to find women's panties in her husbands vehicle. They fought, she cried, he made promises and then broke them and the pattern continued. This mutual friend confided in my friend that he wished his parents divorced, instead of doing what they did. On one hand, you can say they role modelled trying to work it out, sticking together, for better or worse, but on the other hand, you could say they role modelled unhealthy relational dynamics, weakness and subordination on the part of the mother, weakness and addiction on the part of the father, hypocrasy as they were "good Catholics".... Even if we think we are role modeling one thing, our children could be interpreting it as another. We cannot control what they think, or feel. So, we are left with doing what is right by our own values, and emparting that to our children and letting them know that we are doing the best we can with what we have and encourage them to connect to some values for themselves. Yes, we can tell them what values we want for them, and teach them about those values while we do have some sort of influence. My intention is to "scaffold" values development, within their "zone of proximal development" (Vygotsky) such that they mature into healthy young adults who have a strong foundation and a solid road map with which to navigate their adult lives. The best way I can do this is to lead by example by doing the same myself, and by sharing the process as it unfolds.

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

Well, it’s time to face it~I have not been going well. I am actually kind of a mess. The mediated conversation went okay, and then it started to sink in.... Admittedly, this conversation (or rather my thoughts about the conversation) was not the be all and end all, it was merely the final straw, the one that broke the camels back.

I guess I’ll first share my feelings, mind you, the thoughts and feelings are not real, they are merely thoughts--my interpretations of what happened, but they have occurred as real and this is the problem (or why I am a mess). H has expressed “empowerment” with this separation, and said he felt the same when he went into treatment. What I heard was that he felt free, and relieved. It landed for me that now he is able to cut loose and do what he really wants to be doing~which is whatever he wants to do, addiction included, without consideration of my values, my boundaries or my feelings. I still feel this as a background concern. I also feel that he had set me up through previous conversations with his friend, that I am this overwhelming force in his life who does nothing but hold him under my thumb. This is a dramatic recount but it is not far off from what he did say (he didn’t say “overwhelming force”, those are my words, but he did say that he feels "under my thumb"). Anyhow, I see that I have lost focus of the bigger picture of my values, and instead I have been narrowing in closely on the values that pertain solely to my marriage, and to the impact this addiction has had on me. This has been very disempowering. So much so that I am in a place of disparagement. I have lost it! Not to worry, I am a resilient person and hence, I am here baring my soul, to get myself back in touch with reality and with who I am, who I say I am, what I am committed to. Momentary lapse of reason is (hopefully) over.

As I was lying in bed tonight, wallowing in my own misery, I was struck with a thought about my checking in with H when I sense that he isn’t doing well. First, it is a commitment of mine because he is my husband and I genuinely care about how he is doing. I am also committed to being fully self-expressed which includes voicing my concerns (a form of self validation). While it would be nice if he validated my concerns instead of diminish, lie, blame-shift, or get angry and complain that he doesn’t have any space, it hit me that what I am also looking for him to do is provide me with a sense of security. When I ask him “how are you doing” or “what’s up”, I am also asking “Is it safe to trust you right now”. Of course, this isn’t asked directly, and I really don’t know if I actually asked that question (instead of asking him how he is doing) what kind of response I’d get (authentic, honest, defensive or reactive etc.). There are a couple of questions I need to ask myself here: If I have to ask my h if it is safe to trust him, is that the kind of relationship I want? What can I do for myself to provide myself with the sense of security that I am looking for?

What I have done for myself today:

I finally asked him tonight to explain to me what this separation really means to him, to define “space”. I reminded him that the last times he took space (once early on in our dating and then when he was in treatment) that he jumped in bed with a coworker (the first time) and in treatment he developed an unhealthy emotional relationship with another patient who kissed him (as he has told it). He told me that he hasn’t been grooming anyone, or flirting and he has no intentions to date or do anything with anyone else.

I bought some natural sleep aids, to help ease my discursive mind so that I can sleep. I have yet to see if they work (seeing as I feel calmer now, maybe, or maybe it’s the result of me getting back in touch with reality and with myself~likely a bit of both).

The values that I have been able to keep up are:
Being there for my kids in all areas that I normally am. I did what needed to be done today to prepare for our camping trip (groceries, finish laundry, pack up, help kids pack up, drop key off to sister so she can care for our cat)

I came to RN to contribute (part of my daily morning routine)

I ate, albeit not 3 square meals, but enough to subsist and healthfully so.

I talked to my aunt, and shared my feelings with her (I had previously talked to her about what is going on).

I cried, and let myself cry, unabashedly (and maybe a little self-indulgently).

I introspected which led to my little moment of clarity which inspired me to get out of bed and share. Sharing is good. I don’t have to feel embarrassed or ashamed of my lapse of reason~I am, after all, human. Sharing is in alignment with my values and sharing allows others to be validated for their own experiences as well. Also, I do not wish to have a pretense of having it all together. It is because of my experiences that I am able to learn, and then to share from my having learned. It is my experiences that create the space for growth and wisdom. Ironically, since changing my quote I have been wondering when I was going to step out of this rut... I don’t think this is the end of it (the rut or the discomfort) but I am glad to see that I can get, and have gotten, something out of it (so, it follows that I will get more out of it, when the time is right!)

Now, I am going to go to bed, for some much needed sleep!

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

"I think sometimes we project the threat onto our partner, when, in reality, it is our own ego that is the threat."

"I think it will prove to be freeing for you to take some risks when you are feeling cornered: risk being vulnerable; risk being courageous; risk being fully responsible."


...I wrote these two statements as part of a response in another member's thread and wanted to post them here as food for thought...

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

I have shared your wise words with a dear friend of mine - you continue to show me the way in my dark moments.


Thank you.
Nellie James

I thought I'd take a moment to journal some thoughts. We are having a talk today, at h's request. Life has kept us busy since I last wrote, which has made the inhouse separation thing easier. I have been able to focus on things of value, like my kids, school, coaching, and getting back to yoga (I am finally making a determined commitment to stick it out for the next 30 weeks). Physical health isn't usually in my highest priority as far things go, but since putting on the typical "college 10" last year, I have noticed the impact of the added weight. I had my first mamogram (a bit early, but I do have a family history of cancers, breast being on in the bunch) and I also had blood tests to ensure a bill of health. I have been taking my youthfulness and health for granted, and the years of stress (not solely related to SA, but definitely a contributing factor) seem to be catching up somewhat and I am becoming aware that Integrity isn't the only value that underlies all other values, but my physical health must also underlie my values (I mean, my body being the vessel, the port for all I do, shouldn't I take care of it?). So, duh. I have been resistant for a long time to partake in regular exercise, participating only in activities for "fun", or for a cause... I trained and partook in a 60K breast cancer walk (5 years ago now), I like to ride bikes, play frisbee, go on hikes, but these were for connection with family, friends and nature.... and I have always been adamant that yoga is for my mind and the body health benefits are secondary... I was rebelling against my ideas of what regular physical exercise means, which, at least among many people I know, regular exercise is a body image issue, not a health issue. (I have a very fit friend who says things like "I've gained 5 pounds... but I'm okay with that" and I think "wtf?"

Anyhow, I hear h stirring so it's talk time.

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

Talk was fine. He shared that he looked at porn on Tues, on 3 separate times during the day and that since talking with our friends, he has additionally m/b on three separate occassions. I was more bothered by his detached manner in the way he shared, and that there was no sharing about his thoughts around it, learning etc. He had said that the urge on Tues didn't occur as unbearable and he didn't know why he acted out anyway. I probed him to dig deeper and he came up with opportunity, entitlement. He said "he didn't know when he'd have a chance to do that again" or "this is the last time" (general thoughts like that that he wasn't really in touch with). It is discouraging that he did not take the opporutnity to deepen his understanding of himself. I do want for him to get recovery, regardless of what happens here, but he just doesn't seem motivated. He said he understands that I am angry (which is actually when I shared that I was bothered). He acknowledged that his sharing might occur like an in order to but he said that he really just wanted to be honest, that he was compelled to be honest, that he had never been compelled to be honest before.... Not that any of what he said matters. He realizes that I will believe him or I won't. I thanked him for being honest. I also told him that if this in house separation is going to work there have to be some common ground rules. If he wants his space to be respected, he should also respect that space. It is not simply his space, it is a space in between us and it deserves equal treatment. It is also a space shared by our children and they at least deserve that respect. I feel sad. I feel like I felt when I was caring for my mom as she was being slowly taken by cancer, from when I would go shopping with her, watching her limp, to carrying her bags for her while she used a cane, to driving her to work, and picking her up, taking her to her medical appointments, to wheeling her in a chair so she could use the loo, to bringing her work to her and delivering it to her clients, to doing the work myself (to the best of my ability and the best of her gradually declining coherent instruction), to calling her clients and telling them she could no longer do their work, to sitting by her bedside at the palliative care hospital as she slipped gradually into a peaceful and more heavily medicated unconsciousness, to her very last breath, the sound of which I will never forget. I was deeply sad, but I was also peacefully present. It was at that time in my life that I was more grounded in my values than I had ever been, or have been since...more than I am now. But, this is what it feels like to me. I am watching an unevitable death of someone I love and care for unfold before my eyes. He is struggling, as my mom sometimes struggled, with his own reality. The difference is that he has a choice. He has the ability to restore his health, if he so chooses. That is where I have the most difficulty with it, and where I find myself getting waylaid by frustration and anger and struggle with thoughts about my own pain, how this impacts me, how it isn't fair. I am much more quick to regain balance and return myself to sadness. Sadness is peaceful and pure. Anger is irresponible and selfish. His addiction is not about me; it's about him. I was able to have compassion for my mom. I embodied unconditional love. I was peace. It is only my selfishness that gets in the way of this with my h. Being compassionate doesn't mean I have to concede to, or support, his choices, but it does mean that I will have fully separated myself out of the equation, rendering his choices personally meaningless. I get logically (and usually metaphysically) but it none the less needs periodic reinforcement. So, I take a deep breath. Center myself. And breathe. Keep breathing. Peace.

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

Dear Mel,
I have read through these last posts with great sadness and also in awe of you. I wish I could offer you the widsom and insights and comfort you have passed onto to me. Instead I find myself learning, once again.



Choice. It is so hard to watch someone you love self-destruct. My son is doing just that. I am trying to separate myself out of his drama. He lives next door. I hear him rustle around, come, and go. Periodically, he checks in and gives me an update of his life and his health issues. I listen. I don't say much. Just listen. It's very hard.

Your words again have been what I needed to hear. Thank you.

Nellie James

Instead of musing in other's threads, I decided to post my personal thoughts here.

I said that sometimes being with our sadness can be most fulfilling, and Autumnrose replied:

"being in that deep acceptance, not necessarily doing things that make us sad or doing things that make us happy."

My thoughts:
yes, that's it. thank you for sharing. I think the reason that it seems more fulfilling at times is because it really takes something to be present when you are sad, compared to when you are happy. Everyone is willing to accept happy. (Well, not everyone...) When we can get over ourselves and be with our own sadness, without resistance, at least for me, it seems to deepen the connection to that which is bigger than myself, yet is wholly within me as well.

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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)