Recovery Nation

lesson one

Early in the r/s he owned that he "had" an addiction to porn, past tense.
He had revealed an involvement w/ a couple of "swingers" and as time went on a little more information came out.The husband had taken photos and as far as I know those photos are still on my now ex husband's computer archives. I expressed my feelings that this couple had preyed upon him and he insisted that they were just sharing the love or some other excuse…….

We were married. The problems were early, numerous and immense. I felt pressured to provide some kind of "sex" for him regardless of how I was feeling. I might be sick and in pain but was expected to be with him while he masturbated if I would not have intercourse.

I hate to remember all this stuff. I feel my anger and pain rising up as I write this and I really just want to let it all go rather than rehash and recreate all this pain in my life again.

There is much I don't remember. The misery of my marriage ran together into a string of days that have little to distinguish them. Much later I found out my H had written to the swinger, telling her he often thought about her while he was with me, six months into our marriage. He also said that it saddened him that he could not be with her again because I was "possessive". He had me read a copy of this email this more than a year later. I think that was the beginning of the end.

He would stay up late at night supposedly to "work" writing computer programs or something but I would find wads of toilet paper floating in the bowl in the morning. I did not want to ask why. I sometimes woke around midnight or so and came out to find him sitting in a cold room with a terribly sad look on his face. He would say something like, "Just trying to get things done".

I was so stupid.

Because of his late nights he would also sleep late in the morning and I had to tiptoe around the house, could not put away dishes or clean or do anything that might wake him.There was little intimacy in our marriage in part because of our different hours in the bed. One morning he did reach for me but when I asked for more kissing and other foreplay he said "I didn't know kissing was mandatory" and proceeded to tell me about other women he had been with who were content to go straight to intercourse. At one point in time I asked about raw spots on his penis. He told me that he had not been doing without sex (he was masturbating so vigorously he rubbed himself raw!)

I was so stupid.

There were so many problems in our r/s and I don't know how much was related to his addiction, how much was my baggage (history of abuse, ptsd) and how much may have been other issues. He would threaten to leave every 7-10 days, would truly pack up and leave once a month. We had been married for almost a year when I asked him to leave after an argument led to his claim that he was masturbating to porn because I was "unavailable". He would not leave so I called the police.

We went thought several more cycles of together/apart. I still loved him and I still had hope but just about the time things were going better the swingers showed up. They were guests at my house for several days. After they left he showed me the email I mentioned above. Then we went on a disastrous trip. A few days later he came to bed in the morning after sleeping in the living room and when I reached for him he said "I don't know why you would want me". Later that morning he told me he had masturbated twice during the night so he was not interested in sex with me. A few weeks later we went to a party and then had difficulty sleeping. I finally went to bed but woke a couple of hours later. It was 4 am. I walked into the living room to find him with a porn film on and his pants off.

I waited a day before I attempted to talk to him. I wanted to be calm. I began with "I feel degraded and devalued by your use of porn". and his response was (with a smirk on his face), "I can't do anything about your feelings". Give up? Me? No. I was foolish enough to try to find a way to work this out in spite of the sick feeling in my stomach. I was willing to try to overcome my revulsion to porn in order to reach some kind of compromise that would allow us to stay together. So I asked to see some of what he enjoyed. I though it might put my mind at ease. But at one point he said, "I don't do child porn because I don't want to go to jail" and even now all I can think is, WRONG ANSWER!!!!!!

So I went to some of the sites he suggested. One was a hub of sorts that had little samples of films. Several of them depicted very young girls, pig tails, headbands, private school type plaid skirts and white blouses. I ran to the bathroom and vomited. He argued that I could not prove that they were underage and I argued that the fact there was a market for this kind of "entertainment" was sick. He then pointed out that my late husband was many years older than I was. I think if I had been holding a gun I would have fired it at that moment.

He did not wish to discuss it anymore. But I did. and I did not care what happened anymore. I hated him. I did not know who he was but I hated him and I was sick with my own shame that I had been intimate with this revolting excuse for a human being.
I asked him one more question and he packed up and left. That was the last time.

It was nearly one year before our divorce was final. I did not know if I would finalize it until I actually did it. And then we continued to see one another. More recently we went through another spell of me feeling pressured to have sex. He would talk about his "needs" but not love. I felt like nothing but an alternative to his own hand.
He sent me an email telling me he had masturbated to porn "at least ten times" that day. He sent an email telling me I was a f***ed up b***h and a control freak. He told me to f**k off and die…….

About two weeks later he sent me a link to Recovery Nation. He began studying Buddhism. He is working on the program here and I believe he is sincere in his desire to reclaim his life. But I still have doubts. I still feel the need to keep my distance, to protect my well being, to be ready to turn tail and run as soon as I smell danger again. We have good days together but I still feel an undercurrent of distrust and I find myself feeling angry at myself for failing to remove myself from his life.

Dear Seethesky,
Welcome to Recovery Nation. None of us ever expects to be here but, that said, this site offers us opportunities for self empowerment, healing, and support so we can build the life we truly want for ourselves based on our personal vision and values. I understand your not wanting to re-visit the pain of your relationship with your husband again - you felt your anger rising again and that can be frightening. I know the feeling myself, but as we learn to heal ourselves, we develop a better understanding of what we've been through and learn to manage our anger, our pain, and our grief in healthy ways. Those emotions do lose their power as we learn to protect our values.

.

If you feel you need to keep your distance, then do. Trust your gut, your own instincts. This undercurrent of distrust will linger - trust in your EX has to be earned and it's his job to prove himself trustworthy. The ball's in his court on that matter. I think many of us have felt angry for not recognizing the red flags, for believing the lies, and we wonder why we indulged behavior that violated our own values of self worth and respect. Don't beat yourself up over this. Hindsight is always 20/20. Part of what happens to us after living with our Hs, is that our values become eroded - we can become emotionally beaten down to the point that it can become the norm. Perhaps, this happened to you. BUT the good new is - you valued yourself enough to leave the relationship- honor yourself for that and continue to protect your well being.


This is his very immature response to you and your being honest in stating your feelings. Emotional immaturity is the hallmark of SA. Don't feel foolish for what you didn't know or understand about SA then. Just remember to honor that gut feeling in the future because it tells you the truth.



No, you didn't know who he was at this point. It's a traumatic shock to see the dark side of our Hs through the lens of his SA choices. There is a duality to the SA mindset and this is the part that collides dramatically with our values. I understand completely. Your lessons will help you with this.

The Partners Healing Worshop is designed just for us. It's a step-by-step process so we can understand, cope, heal, and build a new life. It will take time and hard work but will be Oh So Worth It! Find a comfortable pace for doing the lessons and try to keep that momentum. Each lesson builds on the previous one - it a continuum not a test. Your healing is a process that is unique to you so be patient with yourself. If you have a question, the Community Forum is a great resource. The RN women are great listeners, share experiences, and have a collective treasure of wisdom to offer. Just remember to use the sumbit button for each lesson to keep them all in one thread.

Someone - probabbly me - will check in with you from time to time to see how you are doing.

Nellie James

lesson two
I see myself becoming more capable of growing food and developing a network of folks who wish to barter various skills and necessities. I have a vision of spending more time backpacking and camping , painting the landscapes that touch my soul, and finding that meditative state which comes from a close connection with myself and the natural world. I see myself keeping my health to a level that will allow me to do the physical work I need to do and building upon an emotional base that will help me come through the "tides" of my life with a smile on my face.

lesson 3
I would find wads of toilet paper in the unflushed bowl when I got up in the morning.
He was staying up until midnight or later supposedly to work on some computer program but on occasion I would come out in the kitchen and find him with a terribly sad look on his face, a look I only saw under those circumstances. I would not say anything but perhaps ask when he was coming to bed and he would say something like, "Just trying to get things done". Since he had admitted to previously having a porn addiction I suspected that it was not entirely in the past tense. But I did not even want to ask. I did not want to hurt him, that sad look on his face, and/or I feared his anger if my asking upset him. We had already been in several arguments which had resulted in his packing up and leaving and in spite of what was spelled out right in front of me, in spite of his obvious and deliberate deception I did not want my marriage to end.

There were several incidents that caused me to believe that he was using me to feed his addiction but the one time I tried to talk to him about it became a conflict. I asked for more kissing and he responded with, "I didn't know kissing was mandatory." It is hard even for me to fathom how much that statement hurt. It is almost like it happened to someone else and I was told the story. But I continued to put up with all of it because he would become very angry and leave or at least threaten to leave if I was critical of him or if I said no to sex.

I knew he had naked photos of previous lovers, in particular a set of photos taken while he was having sex with one woman - by her husband, and I suspected that he was masturbating to these at times. I did not dare to ask.

I suspected that there were incidents of what might be termed sexual abuse of his younger brother, by him. I also suspected that he may have been sexually abused by another, perhaps older, friend. He alluded to some things but I had the feeling there was more that he was not telling me. At one time I suggested that it might be a good time to let go of some secrets and received a verbal lashing that was way beyond what I was prepared for. So I kept my mouth shut.

So my gut told me over and over and over again to let him leave and good riddance but something else in me wanted to give him another chance, and then another and then another and on and on and on. He was controlling me by my fear of losing him and being alone and unloved and I let him do it. Now I have learned, from him, that my gut was right in almost all of these cases.

I am not sure that I will ever truly trust in his "recovery". I still have the feeling that he is attempting to isolate me from any other man even though we are divorced and he has been actively pursuing other women. He read my emails without asking and has spent time digging up posts I made on an internet forum in an attempt to "prove" that I was intimately involved with another man. He continues on cycles of love/hate about every 7-10 days and continues to try to justify his past use of porn and masturbation at the same time that he claims that he is "clean". I sense that his continued distrust of me is based in his own lack of trustworthiness. He continues to often operate from his own idea of what I feel and what I am thinking rather than listening to me and allowing me to express an idea or feeling that differs from what is in his head. He will insist I said something that I did not say and sometimes alter what I have said My gut says he is an emotional abuser and the only thing that may change is that he might not be using porn when the target of his anger calls him on it.

lesson 4
What does he value? I know he has a desperate need to feel loved and will value anyone or anything that fills that need. I believe anything or anyone else in his life is secondary to his need to feel loved.
Obstacles - his desperate need to feel loved, his ability to manipulate anyone and anything to fill that need at the same time that he justifies anything he does to fill that need and blames others when his needs are not being met.

Yeah. It probably appears as though I am not taking a bit of this program seriously but - seriously -I believe this man has problems that go far beyond his sex addiction. He claims that he "values" me but just a moment ago I received an email informing me that a little over a week ago he masturbated to a video of his first wife dancing. I did not ask for this information but for some reason he felt it was necessary for me to know this. He also needed, for whatever reason, to tell me that he masturbated last night to relieve his groin pain. He told me that he fantasized about a naked woman who was at the hot springs, then about me and about the men who were there that saw me naked. I am so disgusted. I feel dirty and used and I think I might add to the obstacle listed above that he may be displaying the "value" that someone who has dared to stand up to his manipulations and perversions should be emotionally squashed.

Angry? Yeah - so how do I get out of this? How do I get my life back? I am so sick and tired of living inside of and around his addiction. And I don't, at this time, believe that there will be any end to the "slips" and "relapses" and ongoing justification of his masturbation and his new "need" to fill me in on every single bit of perverted fantasy he concocts.

Hi Seethesky,
I see you have been doing the work at a healthy rate I'm going to jump in with a few comments. First, I think it's helpful to think of your vision as a practical tool, a roadmap that you use for the life you want for yourself. Your vision components are very interesting and give a wonderful picture of who you are and what you value, and I like you positive attitude - not looking back but forward. I suggest that you add some "nuts and bolts" activities to make each component happen. For example, what can you do to become more capable in growing food - take classes, read books, visit farms? Can you plan ahead for your backpacking/camping time frames and mark them on your calendar? What specific activities relate to finding that meditative state? Our visions are not set in stone but are flexible so we can refine them as we grow and heal and so we can refer to them from time to time to see how we're doing.

Many of us have indulged behavior that we knew violated our personal values - we sacrifice ourselves because we also valued our marriage. This kind of conflict is hard to manage. Part of what the lessons will help you with is to identify what you value and also to learn to be aware of any value conflicts and learn to resolve them.


You were listening to your intuition, your gut, and that is a positive.
.
Sadly, many SAs don't understand the difference between intimacy and sex and/or they have intimacy issues meaning basically that they are afraid of an intimate relationship so they avoid it without really understanding that on a conscious level. Of course it hurt you - you wanted closeness, intimacy and thought he did, too. Until we learn about the nature of SA, it's hard to understand any of it. Your lessons will help you gain clarity with this.


Control and manipulaltion. SAs are good at it - gives them some immediate gratification to boot.


SAs are shaped by their pesonal history and sexual abuse is a big contributor for many.


Their secrets are usually secrets they want to keep quiet as well as a part of themselves they often repress. Many SAs have judged themselves and have lived a shame-based life. They often don't allow themselves to be vulnerable enough to share that information. From their perspective, they would be taking too much of a risk.


You have made an important insight into yourself here. There was extreme control. You feared being unloved. Yet, did you feel he loved you? My counselor once told me that I could feel lonely and unloved with my H or without him. Good advice. Yes, he proved that your gut was right - I've learned to never deny that feeling because it tells the truth.


Is he in a recovery program or counseling at the present?


What does he do that makes you feel that he is attempting to isolate you?


Now or before the divorce? In either case, it sounds like he's trying blame shift here and not face himself. Common SA behavior.


The SA mindset is not rational. His skewed perceptions serve to justify his irrational behavior to him.


Or his need to blame you because he can't face himself and accept responsibillity or consequences. Emotional immaturity is one the hallmarks of the SA.


Need for control.

Sounds like passive aggressive manipulation. That's very wearing and hard to cope with until you learn not to buy into it.


It is emotional abuse and very emotionally immature behavior which again is a hallmark of SA. Whether or not that abusive trait remains if he recovers is hard to know for sure, but good insight on your part. In healthy recovery, the supporting behaviors like control are addressed as well.


Good insight that he has a need to feel loved and places value (even tho unhealthy) on whatever fills that need. He lacks the skills to manage his emotions in healtlhy ways.


You know him well. Again, his skewed perceptions allowed him to feel justified and be selfish in fillling those needs. Not good.


That may be true. Regardless, your focus can still be on you and your healing. It's hard to know the motivation behind his email, but Can you protect yourself from them - don't open them or better yet, change your address so he can't "fill you in."


I understand your anger, especially after the emails he sent. They are disturbing. You feel that he values little other than his own selfish interests, his need to control and manipulate you. Can you look beyond this to the secondary values you mentioned? Or do you see nothing that separates the man from addiction/deeper problems?

Many of us feel as if we're left to clean up the SA mess wondering what we will do next. These lessons are a start - seriously.
I hope you choose to continue the workshop.

Nellie James

lesson two (original)

from nellie james

Personal Vision (with more meat on the bone)
growing food:
- I will continue to read books, articles on gardening
-I will continue to learn how to apply what I read about by talking to others in my local area and trying different techniques and different varieties of vegetables and fruit to discover what works the best for me

barter network:
-I will continue to give away the extra food that I grow
-I will learn more about barter networks by reading and talking to others as the opportunity presents itself
-I will speak to others in my area about starting a network for barter (this one is likely way down the road as it will take a great deal of confidence to believe that I won't be laughed at and/or enough self esteem to shrug it off if people think I am crazy)

camping and backpacking:
-when the weather is warm enough I will camp out or backpack for at least 5 nights a month, all in one trip or separate trips (in the best part of summer I expect that it may be closer to 10 nights a month like it has been in the past)
-in the colder season I will get outside and walk or ski at least 5 times a week, this may be a short walk with the dogs or a longer day of skiing or hiking
-I will continue to participate in activities with the two environmental organizations I belong to
-I will continue to ski at least once a month all year (27 months so far!)

creativity:
-I will "play" with my paints at least 5 times a week - this may be as simple as color exploration,
composition practice or other exercises or working on a complete project
-I will create a line of greeting cards as a way to get my artwork out there and work on having them for sale in local shops
-I will participate in the artist's groups I am a member of
-I will fix my website (%^$#^& - I am not a good computer person but I try)
-I will continue to read about the best ways for me to sell my artwork and explore the option of starting an artist's co-op gallery in the area
-I will participate in art shows as the opportunity presents
-I will play the guitar and sing every day
-by the end of 2011 I will have a set of songs recorded to (at the very least) give away to my friends
(I would love to perform again as well, and sell my recordings but that may be a ways down the road and I need to take it one step at a time)
-I will start playing fiddle tunes on the guitar again, regain the skills I once had and have a nice alternative when I do not want to sing

professional:
-I will continue to give massages even if I will not be paid, this could work into the barter plan or it could be trades with other therapists (ahhhhh - I feel good just thinking about it!) or providing help for others who need the massage but cannot afford it
-I will continue to give massages that I will be paid for!
-I will find a trusting soul(s) to practice my shiatsu and acupressure with as these are the methods that speak to my sense of "wholeness" but are not in great demand in this area

health (includes meditative state)
-I will continue to eat healthy food but not scold myself for the occasional "treat"
-I will maintain my current level of physical conditioning by walking, skiing, yoga and receiving massage
-I will do at least 20 minutes of yoga every day
-I will involve myself in an activity that can become meditative for at least one hour every day, as I have discovered this may be yoga or walking or singing or painting or skiing as well as sitting meditation
-I will make a cd of guided meditation using the skills of Eriksonian Hypnotherapy which I have learned along with some other concepts I am learning
-I will restart the counseling I was receiving last year
-I will complete the workshops here
-I will pet and hug and play with my dogs every day
-I will make contact with and spend time with other people at least 2 times a week
-I will remind myself of a positive quality of everyone I know, even those people I dislike

Thank you, Nellie, for nudging me to flesh this out. It has been very helpful and uplifting at the same time that it has been a little sad. I feel sad that these goals do not include a partner. I feel sad that I allowed so much of myself to be altered by my relationship with my ex. But I realize that I have a very rich life even if (or maybe because?) I sleep with a golden retriever on the pillow next to me.

Dear Seethesky,
Good Job! I love it when the "nudge" works.

I am a gardener and artist, too.

Nellie James

addendum to lesson 3

He has no contact with his younger brother and told me that his brother had complained of sexual behavior but my ex did not, at that time, own up to anything that would be considered abusive. My ex also spoke of having someone show him a Playboy magazine. As I recall it had been a older brother of a friend (or something else along those lines) but on another occasion my ex spoke of "finding" the magazine. I don't know which story is true but from the first I heard this story my gut said there was more to it and the "shift" in the "facts" supports that feeling.



He started the program here (to his credit he had discovered this place on his own) but I felt he was pretty much just going through the motions. Apparently he was continuing to indulge his addiction and his behavior towards me was so changed, almost unreal in how closely it resembled what I would want in a relationship, that it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. He abandoned the program after the last conflict (I had sensed he was indulging and lying, I retreated and then attacked - not something I am proud of) he apparently went on a binge, and now has restarted. My gut tells me that it will be a long hard road and the experience that others have shared here supports that feeling. In some ways it saddens me that we cannot work on this together ( especially since these exercises so far seem to be speaking to a "partner" of an SA and at this time he is an "ex") but when we attempted couples counseling a year ago I lost hope during the first session when he offered up one of his "versions" of an incident. My gut told me that this expensive counseling was a waste of money unless he was capable of knowing and telling the truth.



He had been in a pattern of "checking up" on me. He would call several times a day, if I let the answering machine pick up he would often hang up. If he was unable to reach me for a day or more he would show up at my house, one time he was tapping on my bedroom window to wake me at 12:30 am.

I went to stay with a friend (who is male and has a cabin near a ski resort) along with others for a few days. I told the ex where I would be (generally) so he could not use the excuse that he was "worried" about me, and he took the time to search through posts on an internet forum, my friend's photo account and public records to find a full name, phone number and address. He emailed me to tell me that he found some "porn" on my friends photo account, then he phoned me there (I don't have a cell phone) and then he showed up. One of the odd things he said to my friend was; "Thank you for taking such good care of _______." One usually thanks another for taking care of a pet, or the houseplants, but an ex-wife? I am not the only one who was uncomfortable after this incident. The word "creepy" came up more than once.

Perhaps some of this is MY issue but I feel very apologetic about having my ex "tailing" me and causing discomfort for my friends and acquaintances so I am more inclined to stay away. I might add that the ex was insistent that I was intimate with this friend, or at the very least that my friend wanted intimacy (In that the ex was correct but sheeesh……I kinda have a say in that, don't I?) and that is why he was upset. The ex told me that his friend suggested that I was "lying". I was not intimate with my friend, not even considering it and I told my ex that but it did not put an end to his suspicions. And of course the ex was, at this same time, putting his profile back up on dating websites and even sending me a link to his profile, telling me he was looking for a "pen pal", but telling others that he might have found a "potential mate".




Reading my emails and searching internet posts occurred recently, after the divorce. We have made a couple of attempts at maintaining a relationship. Mistake. When the ex searched my posts on the forum he went back to the time frame when I filed for a divorce. He insisted that I filed the divorce because I was involved with another man. Apparently he forgot that he had been abusive and blaming me ( "if you didn't do this I wouldn't do that" kind of thing) but I know he had a habit of coming up with his own reasons for a relationship ending. I recall him saying that one woman broke it off because she decided she did not want to live in his town after she had expressed to him how much she loved it there. He was not willing to consider that it was him, not the town, that was the problem.
____________________________________________________

I also wanted to add another insight. When I first met the ex he told me how a rumor had been spread of him being a peeping tom in his current neighborhood. I could not, at first, even consider that it was true. I knew he often walked his dog at night but I could not see this gentle, loving man as that kind of violator. After we had been married for a few months and his sexual habits were coming to the surface I began to wonder if there was some validity to the rumor.

But I stayed with the man because I loved the good times. And then when d-day came around I knew it was over. I realized how much I was cheating myself by giving up my life to someone who had so little consideration and respect for me. I wanted to remain friends, perhaps I wanted to have my cake and eat it too, so to speak, but I had a hope that we could retain some of the companionship that we both valued and some how leave behind the garbage. I was not aware of how serious his problem was.


At this time I suspect almost everything he does has a hidden motive. He wanted me to take care of his dog for a couple of days and I suspected that this was his way to get his foot in the door again. He has kept my dog on more than one occasion so I felt I should return the favor but in the end perhaps it is a distrust of my own behavior, my ability to maintain my own boundaries, that gives me the feeling that I need to cut off any and all contact. So, a list:
he wants to spend time with me, my gut says no
Maybe I can come back and add to this later but at this time that one entry covers it. I distrust his recovery, I am tired of being dragged back and forth between his extreme emotions and I distrust my own ability to say no.

But he came and dropped off his dog and we went for a walk and talked a little. It went okay.

I was thinking just about some incidents that I believe could be added to lesson 3. These incidents occurred very early in our marriage and my gut told me something was terribly wrong but being unable to identify the cause, and of course having the blame placed on me, silenced that little voice.

We had been married for about a month and we were on our "honeymoon", driving to visit his parents and camping along the way. Our first stop was at a clothing optional hot spring. We soaked that night and the next morning he wanted to have sex but I was not feeling up to it (I have chronic digestive problems as a result of a hysterectomy due to ovarian cancer) so he masturbated. (see note below) Later that day he accused me of making some offensive comments about a religious group while in a conversation with some others at the springs. He could not tell me what I had said, just that it was offensive and I needed to own up to it. He was persistent and I was not about to admit to something just to appease him. I denied having said anything that might fit his description (I knew I had not) asked for more details (he could not even give me a context in which I made the offensive comment) suggested that he might have thought he heard something but was mistaken and when none of this worked I finally broke down and, in so many words and at a higher volume than I wish I had to admit to, told him to provide evidence to back his accusation or STFU. This turned into the most frightening episode in our marriage - even to this day. He ran off into the desert, came back and spoke of dying and ran off again after throwing his wedding ring at me and breaking a bottle on a rock. I could not understand why this was happening but while he tried to blame me and I had a part of me willing to take the blame another part told me that he was a sick man.

After he left me (the last time he left - a year and a half later) a friend suggested that I read about Borderline Personality Disorder. Her mother suffered this illness and eventually committed suicide. The incident above fits with BPD but I also see how it could be a part of SA.

And I think of another incident which occurred shortly after we were married but before the one above. We were on a hike in a beautiful and isolated location and stopped for a break near a stream. The ex suggested taking off our clothes and taking pictures of one another. It was a wonderful experience - very much in line with my values. There was not any sexual content in my mind - just the beauty of the human body in a natural setting. After we got home that night there was a conflict. One of my dogs was coming in the kitchen and the ex did not want him there. I watched in disbelief as the ex repeatedly kicked my dog in the chest. The dog would not move but repeatedly looked at me as if to try and tell me something. I know I told the ex to stop, I have a vague recollection of crying and perhaps even screaming at him to stop, but I really have little memory of what else happened - I think this is just one incident when I dissociated. I stored this memory away because it was so horrifying to me. I believe we had only been married a week! So again I wonder…..Was this a symptom of an abusive man? BPD? SA? all of the above? Was he in conflict with himself and taking it out on my stubborn old dog?

note: He clearly felt the need to "consummate" his sexual desire by masturbating if I was not interested in intercourse and he wanted me to participate in some manner. From the very beginning I felt uncomfortable doing this but I told myself that this behavior was okay in a committed relationship. I did not like it but I did it for him. Later on I begin to try and avoid this situation by trying to avoid even inadvertently "stimulating" him sexually (little did I know that a stranger buying food in a grocery store was capable of "stimulating" him)

And then these thoughts lead to another memory: In the winter I would come out of the shower and stand in front of the wood stove in my bathrobe to put on moisturizing lotion. I did not do this as a sexual invitation - it was cold in the bathroom and the bedroom- but one time he grabbed me and shoved me over a chair while he unbuttoned his pants. I can't remember how I got out of this - another dissociation - but I made a point of no longer putting on lotion in his presence. I blamed myself for what happened and altered my behavior rather than explore the possibility that his behavior was not normal, was highly sexualized, disrespectful and abusive.

and yet another memory - one ends up leading to another and the pattern I am seeing here is tearing me up inside but I am going to continue anyway.....

One time he wanted some sexual contact and I did not. He grabbed my hand and forced me to touch him. I have memories of this happening more than once, he sometimes woke me in the middle of the night and asked me to hold his penis, but on this occasion there was obvious force involved and I recall having to physically fight him to get away and out of bed. His response to this incident was to pack up and leave. But as usually happened he came back and I let him.

and more:
the first winter after we were married I had season ski pass I had purchased before before we met. He did not have a pass and day tickets were very expensive so I would go away for a few days by myself. One time I returned home and just as I walked in the door he began to show me the work he had been doing to calculate what it would cost me to replace some plumbing in my house. I began to question some of the numbers and he blew up at me and walked out. I responded (he had been doing this every 7-10 days for several months by this time) by locking the doors. I think this was the first time that I was able to see the fear that his behavior incited in me. His anger was so unexpected and out of context - gees dude, let me get in the door and maybe get a shower and something to eat before you insist on my agreement to give you several thousand dollars. He had admitted to using porn while I was gone on a previous occasion and I now wonder if on this occasion his internal conflict was a big part of this incident. After this I did not go away by myself again until we were separated.

more:
He claimed that I exhibited a need to have "control" when it came to sex because of my alcoholic father and physically abusive mother. He was upset because he felt he had no say in when we had sex and he thought I should sometimes have sex when he wanted it, not just when I wanted it. I still feel my skin crawl when I think of what this means! He wanted me to spread my legs for him even when I did not want to and this type of demand was perfectly okay and normal! I guess it was not a part of his thought process that I had a right to say no.

Back a few posts nellie asked:


I am not sure. As I try to remember my feelings I think of feeling compassion for what he might have suffered and how that might affect his expression of love. I think I WANTED to believe that he loved me but at this point in time I do not believe it was possible for him to "love" me. I remember feeling trapped by my love for him, the fact that I married him and my feeling that I had made a commitment that I did not wish to break until I had to make the choice between honoring my commitment and saving my own life.

I remember the day I filed the divorce papers. We had been married on the courthouse lawn and the clerk's office looked out on that same lawn. I could not stop the tears and when the clerk asked me if there was anything she could do to help all I could say was; "I need to get this done".

lesson 4 addendum
me:


nellie:


I have ben puzzling over what was meant here by "secondary values". I am just going to answer as if I know.

He will value anything or anyone which fills his need to feel loved. But the down side to that is the tendency to rapidly flip from valuing to devaluing someone or something. It seemed that he had an ever-changing set of criteria that someone had to meet or that person would be shredded.

He is meticulous when it comes to his work and has an amazing ability to fix "things" but I suspect that he also uses his skills to gain power over others and "prove" his superiority by leaving tasks unfinished until he feels he is getting what he needs ("after everything I did for you") and being super critical of anyone else's work.

He is very intelligent but I have seen him use his intelligence to mess with other people's words and beliefs and twist reality to suit his needs. He can be very, very convincing in his "crazymaking". He has also used his intelligence to express superiority over others.

He has taken on the trappings of a spiritual practice but I have seen him use his form of spirituality to express his superiority, telling others that their practice and/or beliefs are "wrong" or otherwise offensive to him. Perhaps this can change but I will need to see it to believe it.

He values the beauty of the natural world and often expresses that value

There are so many things that he claimed to value but his actions said something different.

Perhaps I was the target for too long. Perhaps it is my gut speaking. I became so uncertain of my own perceptions but I don't think that I ever really "knew" him, I am not sure there was a "him" to know. Some time ago I sensed that he was capable of changing himself into whatever he thought would get him what he wanted, to change his "values" from person to person, moment to moment, depending on his "needs". It is no wonder that I find this exercise difficult to complete.

Lesson 5

Addiction is a rational way to manage life using irrational behavior. Meaning, there is a very logical purpose for the existence of addiction in a person's life. Though to all, the actions/choices associated with that addiction are often completely irrational.
 
A. How do you manage your stress? What would it take for you to become so emotionally overwhelmed that you would turn to irrational behavior to produce enough intensity to escape from that stress? Can you think of a time in your life that you have turned to such a measure?

Currently I manage stress by:
crying
walking
cleaning house and doing other daily chores
hugging my dogs
painting
listening to music
playing the guitar, singing, writing songs (although excessive stress interferes with this)
reading
doing yoga

I have used alcohol as a way to manage stress but I have very low tolerance and I hate puking so it has not been a habit to drink to the level of intensity that would allow me to "escape stress". But the first time the ex packed up all his belongings and left me I got shit-faced. I puked. I was miserable and drinking did nothing to help. I had not drank like that since I was a teenager and I have not done it again since.

B. Consider a compulsive behavior that you have engaged in. Break it down thoroughly. Get a sense for the anxiety that you experienced prior to engaging in the act. Imagine the continued anxiety that you would have experienced had you not engaged in the act. Describe that anxiety in your own words.

I have considered my attempt to remain in a relationship with a man who packed up and left or at least threatened to leave every 7-10 days as a compulsive behavior. I feared that if I let him go I would regret it. I feared that if I lost him I would never be loved again, that I would never be able to trust again, that I would live the rest of my life alone. I begged him to stay and I begged him to love me and forgive me. I believe not engaging in the compulsive act would have produced less anxiety than engaging did.

C. In contemplating the role that addiction has played in your partner's life, imagine what his/her life would be like without this life management skill in place. To be clear, the task here is not to imagine his life without the consequences of the addiction, but to imagine how he would manage his emotions without having the compulsive act to engage in. How would he stimulate himself emotionally? What would he use to regulate his stress? Not how should he, mind you, but how would he?

I believe I witnessed the effect of his attempt to live without his addiction. I believe I was the target of his anger, his insults, the "gaslighting", the way he would twist what I said and did to make me out to be a horrible person, someone who could be blamed, someone who was "worse" than he was, when his addiction was not serving him as well as he needed it to. Without his addiction to turn to I believe he would have been even more verbally abusive and might have become physically so. So maybe I should be thankful that he chose to jack off to computer porn at night while I thought he was working.

Lesson 6
A. read first half of "He Danced Alone"
In many ways this story was similar to what the ex has told me of his addiction. It was both troubling and comforting. Troubling because the ex's behavior was more serious than I would have ever thought; illegal and disrespectful, but comforting because Jon was able to recover from such a deep addiction.


B.
Quite often, many sexual behaviors occur with such subtlety, such consistency and/or are so well disguised (through humor, anger, guilt, etc.) that it is not until you filter these behaviors through a net of sexual addiction when you realize that they are indeed woven from the same cloth. But the reality is, the majority of sexual addicts have positioned themselves within a cocoon of sexuality that is not related to their personality, but rather, their addiction. With this in mind, think of your partner's behavior over the course of your relationship. Describe the patterns that you suspect can be attributed to a sexualized mind.

This question is a difficult one for me to answer as there was not a lot of overt behavior. I don't know if this was because I did not notice or because it was very well hidden. In retrospect I can see patterns that may have indicated a sexualized mind but at the time I was willing to accept these behaviors as a part of who he was and they were not, in and of themselves, a "deal breaker". The way he would look at me at times felt uncomfortable, as if he thought I was interested in sex even if I was not. I believe he has spent a lot of time justifying his addiction as being beyond his ability to change and anything was fair game in his attempt to defend the behaviors he chose. I do remember quite clearly his response when I expressed my feelings about his use of porn after I caught him "in the act". It appeared that he thought his actions were "normal" and I was the one with the "problem" because I felt so disgusted by porn. And now that I know some of the other addictive and clearly illegal behaviors he engaged in I do understand how an ability to convince oneself that one is helpless, or that the activity is "okay" in some convoluted sense, is a necessary part of taking the kind of risks that were taken.

C. Of the four areas discussed in this lesson, which have you observed in your partner?
sexualized mind
notes:
-nothing "wrong" with behavior, partner is "prudish"
-feeling of being helpless to change perceptual pattern
-everything in the world is somehow related to sex

as I spoke of above and:
-when I caught him in the act of using porn and masturbating he used a whole host of techniques to attempt to convince me that there was nothing wrong with what he was doing and I was the one with the "problem"

objectified mind
notes:
-disassociates the person from the action
-it is all about the stimulation
-may involve justification/delusion

-he was capable of claiming that he was always "faithful" to me in spite of the fact that he was deriving the bulk of his sexual stimulation from masturbating to on-line porn
-he attempted to blame me for his use of porn - his justification was that he had "needs" and I was "inaccessible".
-I believe there was a greet deal more behavior that would fall in this category but I was not aware of it while we were married
-I frequently got the feeling that he had no sense or at least no willingness to accept that I was a different person from him with different views and different values and emotions. I am not sure if I felt "objectified" by this or if I just sensed a lack of division between the concepts of "me" and "not me" in his behavior. Another way of describing this might be that he behaved as if it was all about "his" world and anyone or anything in "his" world was his to use as he desired. Perhaps this better the describes the feeling that I was not a person but an object. I see the first description as fitting someone who defines himself by what he is able to collect within his circle which supports his view while he "disowns" who or what will not support the image he wishes to create for himself. It is also a description of an individual who has not achieved a level of emotional maturity that begins with an ability to discern between "me" and "not me".

immediate gratification
notes:
-includes avoidance of stress
-transition from patterns of seeking immediate to delayed gratification occurs from infancy to adolescence
-transition may not take place due to parental neglect, lack of nurturing, lack of support for goals

-using porn rather than working on a troubled relationship that could provide the gratification over the long term
-taking risks for gratification rather than considering the possible consequences
-using addictive behavior to feel "good" rather than working on the issues that lead to one feeling "bad"
-willingness to engage in behaviors, such as p and mb, that leave one feeling worse, in exchange for that short period of stimulation
-at the times we were intimate I often felt rushed and when I asked for more foreplay his response was mean and disrespectful. This behavior did eventually change but see below
-he expressed the belief that I should sometimes have sex when he wanted it even if I did not want it and for me to do otherwise was "controlling". Perhaps this could also fall under objectification. While this appears to have changed I still sensed a great deal of pressure to either satisfy his "needs" or condone whatever method he wished to use for his personal gratification and if I would not agree with his view he could become angry, accusing and "victimized" by my attempt to maintain my boundaries
-in a very recent conversation I suggested something he might try to relieve what is often referred to as "blue balls". He said something to the effect that it was a "long way around" to a solution - may have been an attempt to support his desire to masturbate rather than explore another option (may also fit under "all or nothing")
- he was of the mind that masturbation was "okay" because it kept him from engaging in other addictive behaviors rather than do the work of addressing those other behaviors

all or nothing
notes:
-everything is one way or another, no continuum, no graduations
-resulting from immature perceptual abilities!!!!!!!<<<<<<<<<<<<
-these extreme perceptions of life lead to:
impulsivity and chaos
immediate effects rather than longer term consequences
-warped perceptions and skewed processing

-I was frequently asked to choose between two options - ignoring the possibility that there was an entire gamut of answers (ex: "do you want me or not?")
-as I have described above under "objectified mind" I sensed a lack of development of perceptual abilities that would allow one to accept that one's view of the world is not the only possibility. I see where this could be an issue of self-esteem but the end result is the same - one is either "with" him or "against" him
-one of the major problems in our relationship stemmed from what I felt was impulsivity. I frequently was given the choice of going along with his impulses or not, there were no other choices, and on the occasions that I would not go along I was served with put-downs and other methods he used to express his belief that acting impulsively was okay and there was something wrong with me because I was not, in the vocabulary he chose to use, "spontaneous" .
-another major problem that found it's way into all aspects of our marriage was the sense I had that chaos was very relative for him. He could be very organized when he chose to be but someone else's objection to chaos was often something to be ridiculed or was, in his vocabulary, "controlling" behavior.
-I was regularly amazed at his ability to twist parts of conversations and events in order to create support for his view. I got the sense that he was capable of convincing himself that what he chose to perceive was the truth and anyone who tried to defend themselves from his misrepresentative perception had something "wrong" with them.

While it is your issue that you feel apologetic (because you are not responsible, and hence need not apologize for anyone's behavior but your own) this is not the most pressing issue at this time. What is more important is that you need to set some clear boundaries for your ex! His behavior is beyond creepy~it is stalking behavior. If you need to involve authorities, I am certain you have more than enough evidence and backing from your friends with whom you were staying.

Your ex is spending way to much time ruminating and obsessing over you. The attention can be exciting but it is potentially dangerous~I would stay out of the drama of it, personally. Again, boundaries are important for your self-protection.



I think that in some cases, addiction can be an extension or symptom of a personality disorder, in so much as to explain how a person could risk so much, with such detachment and inconsideration for their partner, and with such an exaggerated sense of their invincibility (ie in not getting caught, or in not getting a disease, or in the misbelief that they are in control of their behavior). From the sound of it, the profile fits for your ex but again, this is only relevant in the context that you seek to understand, mainly for the purpose of protecting yourself.



Partners often talk themselves into accepting and even participating in behaviors that otherwise don't feel right, under the same premise (that it's okay in a committed relationship).



He clearly objectified you. You will see how many of his behaviors are part of his sexualized mind later on in the workshop.



Nellie is pointing to positive things he might value, that are perhaps skewed by the addiction but would none the less survive should he chose recovery. I think you answered the original sufficiently when you wrote: It probably appears as though I am not taking a bit of this program seriously but - seriously -I believe this man has problems that go far beyond his sex addiction.

There is nothing wrong with your point of view. If you were still with him, and wanting to work on the relationship, it would be important to see the man beyond the addiction but for where you are right now, this is not necessary. You are angry and that is okay. You will get your life back, especially if you apply yourself to the workshop lessons as they are designed to guide you to reclaiming your life. What you get out of the workshop is relative to what you put in so it will be your commitment to reclaiming your life that has it come to fruition.



Hindsight is 20/20. Consider though, when you were afraid that you were not lovable, or you might not be loved again, or that you might not ever trust again (all the reasons that you tried to stay in the relationship) whether these were compulsive behaviors or perhaps acts of desperation (do you think you had control over those thoughts or did they run the show?)



You did a very good job, regardless. I think you could likely identify more in his most recent behavior of telling you that other man were watching you when you were at the hot springs, or telling you that he mb to his ex wife's dancing. Also, referring to the earlier lesson where you described some of his objectifying behavior in his abuse of your dog (if he saw the dog as a being with feelings, instead he saw it as a thing to take his frustration out on). Also, his objectification of you by his expectations for sex and the time he threw you over a chair....

_________________
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)