Recovery Nation

(I'm calling it a value violation rather than a boundary violation, because I didn't have a boundary / consequence set up for something like this.)

Sorry, this is going to be kind of long and disorganized...

My husband had a work trip recently- back to the base where we were stationed when his most severe acting out occurred. He was there for a week. Leading up to the trip, we had some discussions about communication and accountability, and about things that would make me more comfortable while he was gone. I told him I didn't want him to have an ATM card with him, so he left his cards with me. I also told him I didn't want him to have a car, because I didn't want him to leave the base on his own. He told me that he would not have a car. Communication went well during the week. He seemed to be deriving lots of value from his work. No urges or slips. He went off base a few times with other members of the team, but didn't venture out alone. Toward the end of the trip, he told me he had some surprises that he wanted to talk about when he got home (I'll get to that part in a bit- that's where the value violation occurs). All in all, it seemed like a successful trip for him, both personally and professionally. When he arrived home, it was late at night and he was tired and jet lagged, as it was an overseas trip. He said we'd talk the next day, because he wanted more than just a few minutes to talk and wanted to be awake. Well, the next day, he went back to work, then had to go pick someone else up at the airport and arrived home late, so that day was shot. In fact, due to our crazy schedules, we didn't get a chance to talk until almost a week after he arrived home from his trip. He started off by showing me his bank account online to prove that he hadn't taken any money out either leading up to or during the trip. Then he talked to me about how often we had communicated during the trip. Then he sprung it on me- "I had a rental car while I was out there." He proceeded to explain the reason why he picked up the car (his commander had put in for him to have a car, but he didn't have to pick it up.) He picked up the car because he wanted to go visit some of our daughter's old friends and coaches and have them make little video clips for her on his phone. (This is legit- he showed me the clips.) He didn't tell me about the car for a couple of reasons: 1. He knew I was already on edge about the trip and knew that I would be more upset if I knew he had access to a car. 2. He didn't find out that his commander had authorized a car until less than 12 hours before he left and didn't feel that was a good time to discuss the situation, because he would have been more worried about me when he left than he already was. He always planned on telling me about the car once he got home (I believe this- as he came right out and told me on his own- I didn't even suspect that he had a car.) He also went to confession the last day he was out there and talked to a priest about the whole thing. Supposedly, the priest told him that the best thing to do would have been to tell me about the car upfront, but that, given the circumstances, he understood why my husband handled the situation the way he did...

So, clearly, my value of honesty has been violated. My husband thinks that what he did was okay, because he decided up front that he would tell me about it on his own once he got home. Part of why he thinks this way is because, I've told him in the past that if he has a slip, he doesn't have to tell me about it immediately, but he does have to tell me on his own. I had to explain to him that this is not the same as a slip. I see this as a deliberate, planned deception. I understand his reasons for keeping this from me, but I would have preferred to deal with the stress of knowing he had the car while he was gone rather than dealing with knowing that he lied to me. He explained that he thought it was better for me to be upset and on edge now that he's home than it would have been for me to be on edge, at home, dealing with three kids and all of their/my various obligations while he was halfway around the world.

I'm feeling completely betrayed. Husband thinks I'm overreacting. He sees the trip as a success, because he was in a place that he had previously (over a year ago, shortly after disclosure of his addiction and acting out) labeled "not a healthy place for me", without me, with access to a car and he didn't have even the slightest desire to act out. I, on the other hand, am now questioning everything. I fully believed that he didn't have a car and my gut didn't tell me otherwise, so I feel very easily duped. I don't really know if he acted out or not during the trip. If I had known he was going to have a car, I would have demanded a more thorough accounting of his finances over the months leading up to the trip to make sure he didn't have any cash stashed away (or would have at least searched his wallet, clothing and luggage for cash before he left.) I would have also requested more frequent communication during the trip (although we did talk twice every day and chatted online a couple times a day each day he was gone.) I don't know. Am I overreacting? My husband feels very frustrated and defeated right now, because he thought the trip was a good thing and a big step forward in rebuilding trust, but he feels that my reaction to all this means that I just think he screwed up again and that nothing good came out of the experience. I don't think the lie negates any good that came out of the trip, but it does make me question whether he's being honest about the rest of the trip. And it also makes me feel like my gut failed me- overall, I felt much more comfortable- almost trusting- during and after the trip than I thought I would. I don't know.

Sorry for rambling so much. Thoughts? Advice? I'm still really struggling with boundaries and consequences. I had come up with a list a long time ago in the Couple's Workshop, but as I look over them now, a lot of them are severe and unreasonable. I've been working on new ones in the Partner's Workshop, but it's a long and slow process for me... and it frustrates me when something new (like this situation) comes up that I hadn't anticipated...

*Edited to add something that occurred to me after I originally posted this. Yes, he told me about the car on his own, but maybe he told me because he knew he had to- he knew I was going to check his travel card statement when it came in, so I would find out on my own anyway. I feel even more manipulated now...

Dear cardinalbluejay,

Yes … when a previously established boundary is violated, we are in a better position to know how to respond and then we are not particularly destabilized. I don’t think it is possible to predetermine all of the boundaries we would need, to protect all of our values in all situations. So what you are dealing with is two things … what is an authentic and healthy reaction to this instance and what additional boundaries / consequence will help you protect this value, going forward?

10 years ago, I would have thought “that’s so sweet … it must have been hard for him to wrestle with keeping something from me, but his concern for my feeling came first” 5 years ago, I would have thought “that’s dumb … he should know me well enough to know that I always want the truth as soon as possible” Now … well now I am suspicious of anything that sound like he is protecting himself, under the guise of protecting me. I believe that even in mid- to late- recovery, our partners are still more concerned about our reactions than they are about our values.

I am hearing the core issue here as: He took away your choice to respond to a change in agreement. You felt set up with a sense of safety, because you knew there was no car. When he knew that there would be a car, he did not give you the opportunity to choose whether to ask him to stick to the original plan or to negotiate a new plan.

This is classic “all or nothing thinking”. At this point, he’s been around RN long enough to understand this, yes?

Our partners really have a hard time accepting that this is going to happen to us and that we expect them to deal with it in a mature, supportive and unselfish way. They haven’t accepted the loss of the wife who questioned very little, and then kept what questions she had to herself.

Even though our gut is not 100% reliable, it is still the most reliable source we’ve got. Don’t let this one “failure” invalidate your trust in your gut.

Minerva

Hi Cardinalbluejay,
I understand your need to vent. I am jumping in here with a few thoughts on your recent experience.

Together you laid out rules for the trip to which he agreed. You felt safe. Your communication went well while he was gone. You felt safe.

He knew about the car 12 hours before he left. He didn’t have to accept the car. He chose to lie by omission. If he wanted to visit your daughter’s old friends and coaches, he could have discussed this with you before he left and included you in the decision making process. He chose not to do that. He controlled the situation. Why? To protect you?
From my perspective, he delayed telling you to protect himself. He presented evidence that he had been a good boy, hadn’t accessed the bank account, had communicated with you often – followed all the rules except one. Then he produced evidence (the images) to prove that he was telling the truth. He even went to a priest for advice about the situation that he chose to create. To me this is all about protecting himself. He knows he was wrong. Now he had to face the consequences of his choice. That's the way it works.
Yes. That’s it in a nutshell. Yes again – it was planned deception. He can give you reasons until the cows come home BUT he left you out of the loop, and you don’t want to be left out of the loop. You have a right to feel betrayed. You are not over reacting. He violated an important value and you did have boundaries in place that he chose to ignore. You both agreed to a plan. Now you know that he is not on the same page with you regarding your values, specifically what honest and open communication means to you. Define it for him in writing along with spelling out consequences that you are willing to enforce. You are giving him the opportunity to honor you and your values. The rest is up to him.
He undermined himself by his choosing to lie to you in the first place. He may have been the good boy in all the rest of his behavior. If so, he can give himself a star for that. He did tell you about the car, but after the fact. I went through a big lie with my H about two years ago, and it snowballed into much more because he continued the lie for weeks. It was the lie, not what he lied about, that almost brought our marriage to a halt. Hanging onto the lying, for me, is a thread back to addiction. It's a red flag.
Whew! This is a lot of work on your part. Your original rules were determined and agreed to. All he had to do was follow them. If he had chosen to discuss the "car" with you, you could have stood by those rules and the car would not have been an issue. He took that choice away from you. Don’t feel duped. You had an agreement. He broke it. Now you see that you may have to re-visit your boundaries and consequences spelling everything out for yourself and for him. Give him a copy.

Black and white thinking on his part and manipulative. He screwed up and needs to face the consequences of his choice to lie by ommission.

Yes. I would probably feel the same way. It’s a learning experience for you, and hopefully, a learning experience for him. This is a process. Boundaries are hard to determine until an experience or situation arises to help us clarify and cover all possibilities. I re-wrote mine several times, and I changed my priorities several times. For my H who was steeped in passive aggressive word games, my wording had to be very specific or he found loopholes to use in his own mind games. Eventually, he did get it, but I began to wonder how much work I would have to invest before he connected the dots. Not connecting the dots is a ingrained defense mechanism in itself. Food for thought?

I am glad you are doing the individual lessons. He probably should, too. That's up to him but you can suggest it based on your valuing him as a healthy life partner.

Hope this helps.
Nellie James

Thanks. You've both validated everything I was feeling. It doesn't make me feel any better about my situation, but it makes me feel a little more sane and gives me a bit more courage to stand my ground.

Standing our ground gets easier with practice. Continue to clarify your vision, values, boundaries and consequences as the need arises. This is the process that works for me. Nothing is set in stone. We continue to evolve.

Nellie James

Hi ladies,

I know this is an older conversation, and while I do not disagree with anything that has been shared, I would like to bring up some points that may offer a bit of a different perspective (and some of what I say will be of the same perspective).

Premeditated actions do not constitute slips. That he had the awareness that it is something he should tell you, but put it off indicates conscious choice, not a “slip”.

While it is completely understandable that you feel betrayed, I would like to point out a few things here:

Yes, he should have told you ahead of time. But, that he didn’t doesn’t have to be an all-or-nothing situation (as in, he’s still a liar, that his actions were premeditated, that you will never be able to trust him etc.). What it does indicate is that he is still struggling with values, and that some of his old mindsets are still operating. This is a valid concern, but I do not think that it is critical (unless it is chronic). Now, that he thinks he did nothing wrong is a pretty serious concern, as it indicates that he is not being fully responsible, or not willing to be responsible. What he should be doing is processing this further, not simply resting on “I told you, so what more do you want” and "at least it is better than where I was a year ago". Yes, he is not where he was a year ago, but with that, what it seems like is that he has taken his work to a certain level and has stunted himself there. He is failing to see this as an opportunity for further development. That said, he should see the successful aspects as a success, and he should acknowledge himself for where he is now, compared to where he was. But he should also do some upward comparisons as well, and see that as far as honesty goes, he has fallen short of at least your vision of honesty, and at least be responsible for that.

This is a little all-or-nothing (but it is understandable). Healing and recovery as a couple is very difficult. It requires a lot of work on both parts. It requires a lot of room for development and growth, but the reality is that, from both perspectives, there is little room and often both partners are trying so hard to gain a foothold that they end up pushing each other over the edge. In this situation, your self-protection is kicking in (naturally) and his defensiveness is also kicking in, which isn’t ideal but it is understandable, too. He needs to be able to feel the success of his accomplishment, but he also needs to be responsible for where he feel short. You need to voice your concerns and feel validated, but you also need to recognize the work he has done (unless this is not something that is in line with your values, which I doubt because I doubt that any partner would choose to remain with someone with whom they see no potential). Anyhow, recognizing his work doesn’t have to be a threat to your stability. It is only a threat to your stability if your stability rests on the success or failure of his recovery, which it shouldn’t.

It is understandable that you feel this way. It likely has you feel vulnerable and a sense of loss of control. But, even if you did have all of these “controls” in place, there is no way that you can fully control the behaviour of another. Seeking security in such endeavors is false. If the only way he is going to not act out is by your monitoring his every move, or calling him out, they dynamic of your relationship will never be a healthy one, and it won’t necessarily be all on him. This doesn’t mean that he is entitled to tell you to back off, or that he shouldn’t comply with your requests for your sense of security. If he is sincere in wanting recovery, and wanting to be an honest person, then these requests won’t occur as a problem for him, and he won't need to be defensive if he views them as part of his responsibility and in line with his values. But, his fulfilling on such requests won’t mean that he is honest and sincere in his recovery, either.

This is definitely the case in early recovery. If we are measuring by time spent in recovery, it may seem like it is true of mid to late recovery as well. But, we do not measure recovery by time spent, but rather by the quality of the work. Mid recovery, maybe, but by late recovery, these knee jerk, self-protective behaviours will be few and far between. AND, my mid to late healing, your reaction to these lingering knee-jerk protective behaviours will not be so pronounced either.

Yes, I hear this too and this is exactly what he needs to realize and take responsibility for. And, he should realize that avoidance is avoidance--and it is self protective. And, deception is deception. The natural consequence is that you are less trusting. He needs to be responsible for his choice in the avoidance and deception and realize that there are implications to his actions and inactions. Again, I think the biggest issue here is that he is not taking a responsible approach and you have the right (and responsibility to your own values) to speak your concerns, and to enforce your boundaries in order to protect your values.

Be well.

_________________
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)

Thanks for the additional input, Coach Mel.


I tried to convey to him that this was not the same as a slip- he seemed to somewhat understand where I was coming from, but the fact that he did not come to this realization on his own (or, that maybe he did, but was just playing dumb) concerns me...


I guess I understand this, it's just hard to accept, since I've been drilling into him for years (long before discovery) how important honesty is to me. And I've been drilling this even harder since discovery. Chronic? Hard to tell if it's chronic... There could be any number of things that he's lying to me about at any given time, but, unless I catch him in a lie, it's hard to determine whether he's still lying on a regular basis...


I agree. If he really wanted to act out, I know he would have found a way. I do admit that some of the controls were put in place partly to make it more difficult for him to act out. (I was very concerned about this trip- while he has a pretty good handle on the factors that allowed him to develop the addiction in the first place, he still hasn't figured out what actually caused him to act out- he doesn't know what triggers him. Knowing he was going to be back in an old environment, without knowing what triggers him, concerned me.) However, most of the rules we put in place were primarily to help me gauge the likelihood of whether he had acted out or not while he was gone, if that makes any sense...


I agree with this as well. Aside from this trip, I stopped monitoring him a long time ago. This was just a particularly stressful situation, and we were both trying to come up with things to help me feel more comfortable with his trip. Normally, I don't do any monitoring at all. I may ask him to check in with me from time to time if he's working really late (and he often does this on his own now, without me asking him to), and he knows that I may check the computer history or cache once in a blue moon (in fact, it's been about 6 months since I did any "snooping" on the computer), but generally only if I stumble across something in my day to day activities that seems suspicious, or if I have a really bad gut feeling about something.


I think the main reason my reaction was so strong is that I was prepared to hear about "good surprises", so his revelation about the car caught me completely off guard. While I'm still upset about the lying, and still unsure of how much trust I can place in him at this point or how far along he really is, I had pretty much stabilized within a few days. I would say at this point, my state is "stable, but uneasy and disappointed."

Again, thank you all for the feedback. I know that how I handle all of this is completely up to me, but it's still nice to get input from others who have been there.

Expectations can come with disappointments so what to do? Long ago, before I had any inkling of my H's duality, I passed on advice to my son after hearing a radio program quite accidently. The program was addressing expectations/disappointments and the message was that it's OK to have goals, expectations as long as we can handle the disappointment that comes when aren't expectations aren't met. It's one of those things that I now try to be somewhat mindful of. I'm still caught off guard at times, but I bounce back faster.

Just thought this might help.
Nellie