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 Post subject: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Exercise #2
Now I get it:

We started with a meal and for excitement decided on leftovers! I would have liked to prepare a meal but with the kids and our eagerness to get rolling we decided this was the best course of action. I fed her au gratin potatoes and spinach salad. I was very cognizant of keeping bites smaller and more manageable so I could easliy fit them into her mouth. I was careful to cut the salad up into easy to manage bites. I realized during this part of the exercise I was focusing on her mouth directly for clues as to when she was done chewing and when she was going to give me an indication of what other things she may need instead of simply the next bite. We thought our children would really think this was a strange happening at dinner but they hardly noticed beside a few sideways glances. Dinner was much more relaxed and leisurely than normal. It was very nice to be together and focused on her. After dinner we set the kids up with a movie and I ran her a bath. I got her a warm cloth for her eyes and while she soaked I used a bowl to drizzle water over her and create a peaceful spa like mood. This was very much like an activity we used to do semi-regulary. We called it spa night and we basically followed a similar path the rest of the evening. When she was relaxed and tired from the bath she got in the shower and I climbed in to wash her hair and body. She made me feel good by acknowledging I was getting a much better lather and allowing me to pamper her with extra deep conditioning. We laughed through the whole exercise a bit because it was awkward at times trying to keep things from becoming sexual. I brushed her hair which she said felt good and really made me feel married. This activity seems so standard for a married couple to show they care about one another. I used to have longer hair and she would brush it for me all the time but I think this is the first time I have brushed her hair. Brushing her teeth was difficult because she has a petite mouth. I was very conscious of not making her gag. I compared brushing her teeth to painting. I covered the canvas but was too worried about hurting her to be effective. We also had an issue because I kept tickling her lip with the brush or handle. After the brushing we got kids into bed. We retired to our room where I massaged and moisturized her feet. After this we were relaxed and ready to call the night done.
During the activity I found myself thinking about things we used to do regularly and about things I had not noticed enough about my wife lately, things like her smile and how happy it makes me. I think this activity was good for me because I recognized I have been failing to acknowledge and appreciate some of the little rewards to being married. I liked embracing the familiarity of my wife and interacting in some unfamiliar activities together.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:49 pm 
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Sameoldsameold ex2
My husband took care of me for the entire evening. We were both looking forward to it since this is similar to the date nights we used to have 'on the cheap'. Before we had kids we used to sometimes designate a night as spa night and we'd buy some good smelling products to use on each other. This caused one little glitch in that it had some sexy connotations that we had to overcome.
At dinner my h fed me leftovers from the previous night so we wouldn't have to spend valuable time cooking. Funny how delicious a run-of-the-mill salad tastes when fed to you with love. It went much smoother than I anticipated. I thought the kids would freak out at not being the center of attention. I was hugely surprised that they just occupied themselves and went about their business. Dinner was so pleasant because my h and I were only worrying about ourselves. The kids were happy because nobody was paying them any attention and they could graze on the run like they always try to do anyway. They just looked at us like they're used to us doing weird stuff anyway. I decreed that night that we are going to do similar things more often. It'll benefit the kids to see us paying attention to each other and Lord knows it benefited me! After dinner he ran me a bath and I soaked for a good long while as he poured warm water over me. It sounded so soothing, I just laid there and enjoyed it. After my bath he climbed in the shower with me and washed my hair to my very type-A specifications. Nothin' says love like washing someone's hair once before conditioning and once after... After my shower he warmed my towel and wrapped me in it. Heaven!
Then he brushed my hair and my teeth. The teeth brushing was weird. I'm a gagger and very ticklish, so he had to brush lightly so I wouldn't gag, which just made me tickly.
Later he put lotion on my feet and massaged them for a good long time. He was going to do my whole body but we were too relaxed and yawning by then. I wanted a bedtime snack so he made me an ENORMOUS ham/egg/cheese english muffin. I ate the whole thing and then we both passed out.
It was so nice to be taken care of in such intimate and unusual ways. It also highlighted the areas in which we're both pouring too much of ourselves into our children and neglecting each other. We're both looking forward to doing this more often.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:42 pm 
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Posts: 73
Exercise 3
As I recognize the real issues we are dealing with here are due to my behavior this was a simple activity for me.
My values: honesty, loyalty, family, faith in God, fidelity, justice, education,self sufficiency, self reliance, "actions speak louder than words", the golden rule.

My only rule was that we do not use my addiction/ problems as an excuse not to do things. (i.e. We cannot go see that movie because it might have a sex scene.)
The consequence or action to be taken then would be: We will stop what we are doing or go somewhere and discuss my wife's concerns. Then we will go on with the activity. I will then self-report if those concerns come into play during the activity.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:48 pm 
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VALUES:
Being not just a good parent, but a GREAT parent. Nurturing, allowing proper freedom and security at the same time. Teaching them everything about everything important. Teaching them to take care of their relationships, selves, families, souls, bodies, minds, etc.
Honesty to my kids, my husband and myself. Everyone else on a need-to-know basis.
Loyalty to my God, my husband, and my kids and myself. Loyalty to our extended family comes right after these.
Adherence to my religious beliefs and commitment to teaching them to our kids.
Independence for our family unit.
Making sure that we have a support system in place for when we need to ask for help. I value not burning these bridges or crossing them when they’re not needed. I want to take care of my own family and not be ashamed to ask on the occasion that I need help.
Confidence and pride in my parenting and decision making whether others agree or not is not my problem.
Privacy for myself and my family but not secrecy. Privacy is everyone’s right…secrecy comes from guilt/having something to hide.
Time alone with my husband, my best friend.
Freedom to create art whether its perfect or just plain pleasing to me, to sell or just for the fulfillment of creating. I want to teach this to my kids…your efforts don’t have to turn out perfect…just love the process. Getting there is half the fun and your art is all about you!
Peace in all of its manifestations. Peace and quiet, peace and noise, peace and listening to the pitter patter of little feet, peace of listening to my kids playing silly with dad, peace of a safe, nonjudgmental home where no evil or toxic people/things are allowed, peace and fun, the peace of a house brimming with the chaos of unbridled learning. The peace of waxing poetic at the computer while my kids make up games. J
Reading, reading, reading.
Teaching our kids to enjoy wholesome/self-sufficient activities like gardening, fishing, camping.
Showing our kids the blessing of a healthy marriage and friendship.

COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIORS AND THE CONSEQUENCES:
Scanning, I.e. repeatedly flicking your eyes over the tattooed Home Depot girl.
Consequence: Look away- try to catch yourself if you’re alone, remember that she doesn‘t want that and doesn‘t deserve it. If you don’t remember and stop yourself then you will have to report each incident to me and get the benefit of a disapproving, hurt look on my face.
When you’re with me: I will come up with an appropriate warning signal and we’ll practice it. You may be embarrassed if people witness this exchange. I have confidence that you’ll learn to stop doing this as we practice our system. We’ll check back after a month and if its still a problem I’ll put some harsher consequences on it.

Locking doors at work:
Consequence: every time you’re tempted to do this you will call me. Every time you lock the door you will seek out your least favorite co-worker for a nice, looong chat about anything they want to talk about. You’ll do this instead of having a lunch break.

Looking at women or pictures of women for any sexual purpose. Using Flikr or similar, at all… Feel free to feast your eyes on your wife.
Consequence: You will spend your evenings cleaning for 5 days. You won’t get out of this by being home late.

Masturbation: I.e. touching genitals for stimulation whether leading to orgasm or not.
Consequence: For each time you will go to bed at 9:00p and get up at 5:00a, read the Bible for an hour, then shower and dress quickly, have a healthy/sit down breakfast with the kids and be driving out of the driveway at 8:10a, arriving to work right on time and ready to work.

Feeding fantasy: Yes, it will happen but I trust you to recognize and banish them and try faithfully not to feed them.
Consequence: 1x scrub toilet. Hopefully this will create a negative connotation in your brain. ;) 2x scrub bathroom floor, 3x I will assign you a really boring book to read, to the exclusion of all others, in your spare time and then you will outline it in excruciating detail.

Using the internet at work for anything but work for 7 work days. I would like you to notice how this effects your work productivity and time and write your feelings about it in your notebook.

Being on the internet for any purpose other than SPECIFICALLY for work (and even then you’ll call and get my approval) when no one is around.
Consequence: Each time you will eat a packed lunch in the lounge and then walk around the block for exercise the rest of the time.

Planning or trying to get alone at work for anything other than a quiet workspace.
Consequence: Same as the previous one.

Wasting time at work and then having to make up for it by taking away from home time:
Consequence: Straight home from work for 2 weeks.

Cruising:
Consequence: Straight home from work for 2 weeks.

Pornography:
Consequence: Don’t do this. Its cheating and you know that’s a deal breaker. I probably won’t divorce you but it WILL mean a separation according to severity.
Lying: by omission or “forgetting” or you “didn’t think it was that important” or in any other way is not gonna fly. I’m relying on you and trusting you to self-report here with transparent/complete honesty. If you even have an inkling that you’ve done any of these things you will come to me and tell me and I will mete out the consequence as calm/maturely as possible. If you’re not sure if you’ve done something wrong, ASK.


CAUSE TO WORRY ABOUT OVERALL BALANCE:
Not reading his Bible
Hair/sore/skin picking
Emotional withdrawal from me
Turning my distrust back onto me and portraying me as a crazy bitch while feeling bad for himself for having a crazy, distrustful bitch for a wife. ???
Getting to work late and being home late are always a harbinger of bad news
Angling to stay up late alone or on the computer
When he’s very stressed he tends not to eat right to take care of his diabetes
Defensiveness and insistence on his “right” to do something that he knows is not a good idea.
Desperately seeking his mother’s approval.
Claiming ignorance of the rules.
“Rebelling” against my boundaries like a teenager.
Choosing to spend time with computer rather than organizing workspace or do work.
His feeling of “its better to do this now and ask for forgiveness later than to ask for permission and be told no.”
Letting budgeting go and along with it any semblance of autonomy from his parents.
Bringing home library books with explicit scenes. (“Accidental” porn)
Dating his folks rather than me. Creating time with them but never creating alone time with me.
Focusing on his folks and their marriage, feeding their dependence on him as mediator. WHAT WILL SYMBOLIZE A DETRIMENT TO HEALING/OR RETURNING TO ADDICTION:
Mentally breaking women into “only the good pieces.”
Alone time on the internet
Looking at “only pictures.”
Getting on Flikr or similar
Masturbation
Porn of any sort
Reading explicit books/material of any type
Cruising
Getting home late
Staying up late.
Fighting to get alone. Alone, alone, alone. L
Defensiveness
Fighting for his right to do things that lead him into temptation
Not reading his Bible
Not actively pursuing recovery HEALTHY BEHAVIORS I’D LIKE TO SEE IN HIM:
HIM fighting to spend time with ME with the same vigor he uses in unhealthy behaviors
Getting to work/home on time to reduce his stress level and mine
Spend a healthy amount of time and effort working on a healthy relationship with his parents, leaving them space to work on their marriage and leaving us space to work on ours.
Knowing where the healthy boundaries are with parents and grown children and knowing what to do to protect those boundaries.
Continue working on his relationship with God
Stay active in recovery workshop
Love both himself and me enough not to let his mother’s approval/disapproval matter.
Continuing to work with me on our financial independence
Realize that a healthy marriage DEPENDS on independence from our parents
Not hiding physically or emotionally
Working on eventually being able to trust himself to do healthy things while alone.
Setting up (in advance) time for healthy hobby or interest.
Working well and focusing while at work to ensure that he’s able to keep his job/our livelihood
Budgeting so that we only borrow in times of emergency
Learning healthy coping skills (me too) and impulse control
Continue being a great dad
Getting to the point where he can talk to women professionally w/out the fear/discomfort
Being with ME when he’s with me…especially in public
Relying on/needing/desiring his wife for his sexual and emotional fulfillment
Realize that he’s been depriving me of the above things as well as himself
Freedom from the computer in all respects
Showing that he LOVES to be with me rather than scheming/fighting to be alone or with his parents or his porn
Not looking at life primarily for its sex value
Continue being open about feelings and working through his and mine
Being the man he values-not the one ruled by instant gratification


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:52 pm
Posts: 99
Ex 8
1. I can focus on the many positive things that he does and remember to thank him often. I can incorporate joy into our lives by finding fun things to do together and letting down my guard with him while we're doing them. I can acknowlege (verbally) the constant hard work it takes for him to change his behavior.
2. I started out with a need to manage his recovery because I didn't think he was really going to go through with it. :t: The Workshops have helped me let go of the need to do this. I've been praying for God to help him through it rather than try to manage it myself. My H has also helped by taking the initiative instead of trying to avoid recovery work.-Trying to model positive/mature behavior has helped because, if nothing else, it gives me something to [i]do.[i] I wasn't able to model these behaviors in the beginning but I feel I'm doing it now and it has been integral in helping me to let him take responsibility for his recovery. I'm letting my boundaries and consequences speak for themselves. As a result, I'm less emotionally vested in his behavior now. Which, in turn, is freeing to my H to know that I'm not going to go off the emotional deep end if he slips up.
3. I'm trying hard to eradicate my own unhealthy coping mechanisms. For instance, I'm cutting down on coffee as a show of solidarity. I know its not exactly an illicit substance but I was inching up toward 4 c/day and I just don't want to go there.
-I'm doing my Ps workshop faithfully.
-I'm trying not to allow my inner cynic to shine through.
-I'm listening to and nurturing my instincts...my "still, small voice."
-I'm trying to enjoy and respect my own/mykids/my H's/ efforts even if they're *gasp* less than perfectly executed. Its sad that we have difficulty doing this, but we both come from long lines of exacting perfectionists. I'm still teaching myself this lesson and trying to teach it to my perfectionic kids.
-I want to model living up to my own (reasonable) expecations.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Posts: 73
Exercise 9
That was an emotional meat grinder made harder by the fact I know I have to wait for 24 hours to respond. My heart feels 9000 lbs. I feel bad for my carelessness with her emotional health. I really didn't like who I am to her. I don't like how I see me now. The desire to break the rules was so palpable I ache physically from restraining my body from reacting. I feel full and empty at the same time. I want to fix this and so we can feel better 13 years ago. I don't know if I can trust me after that exercise. I feel like I was hiding myself fom the pain I was causing and the damage I have caused. She is so shaken and unsure but still cares about me enough to put herself through this. WOW!


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:04 pm 
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This was really rough. :t: Having to put my darkest feelings into words hurt like hell. I have so many doubts and fears that go way back to when we were first dating in highschool. I realized today while doing my Partners workshop letter that right from the beginning I was the one propelling our relationship. Every single step it was me pushing. I encouraged him to take me out on dates. After 8 years I was the one who wanted to get married. I plan dates, I plan anniversaries, I plan vacations, I beg him to come home on time and spend time with me. I can't recall a single date or getaway he's planned. I'm having serious doubts as to whether he ever wanted to be with me at all or if he was just along for the ride. This was a difficult day due to these two exercises. An emotional typhoon.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 4653
It sounds like you already have a healthy foundation of caring for one another, and reconnected to that for the intimacy exercise. Good job keeping it non-sexual, as the point would have been lost if it had gone that way.

The consequences to "completely unacceptable behaviours" need to be consequences that you can enact and enforce. Imposing rules on him to follow for violating your boundaries are not effective consequences because they depend on his participation and we cannot control others. Also, these depend on his self-reporting and self-monitoring~that is his work. The purpose of having boundaries is to protect your values. Your consequence for him oggling in your presence is appropriate, b/c it is something you do, so think along those lines.

Quote:
I wasn't able to model these behaviors in the beginning but I feel I'm doing it now...I'm not going to go off the emotional deep end if he slips up.

Excellent!

I am sorry that these last exercises have been so difficult for you. They are necessary though as they have you (both) get in touch with reality and in so doing you will both be able to take responsibility for what you can take responsibility for, which will help you to break those patterns.

Be well.

_________________
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)


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 Post subject: Repost
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:08 am 
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Post subject: Exercise 10
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:47 pm
Now I get it

I have been working on this lesson in my head because that is what I do when I have a task which requires some thought. Then when I reread it today I realized I was preparing the wrong answer. :no: I was prepared to explain how I would treat things if the shoe was on the other foot. The real question was: What would it take and what would I need to regain that trust...time and free license to question and examine all activities. I would want detailed itineraries of my partner's whereabouts. I would want the right to trust and not trust any and all aspects of my partners existence. It is a long road that may never be completely rebuilt but it can at least be strong enough to anchor to most of the time. I know because I have been on the other side of infidelity and have rebuilt my trust in another individual.

_________________
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:05 pm 
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We're both done with the individual workshops and are now starting the couple's workshop again. This is our 3rd wk working on it and we may go back over previous lessons and skip others.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Soso's lesson 8 redo:
1. I have done many of these things. My H is not in early Recov-in fact he's finished w/ the Recov workshop. I was very (too much) willing to give him "time," compassion and support (ok you can't have too much of those last 2.) Now what I need is to get all of my feelings out in the open with him and, hopefully, have them validated. I need him to make amends of an emotional sort. I hope to share with him the problems that are still caused by immaturity and selfishness. I'm so ready for us to get this "repaired" and move on to being adults together in a 2 sided marriage. I'm ready to have my emotional needs met and be supported by my husband.
Regarding integrating joy in our marriage: I know this sounds like no big deal to most people, but I've decided that I know the people at church well enough to drop our kids off during the fall program. This will allow us, for the first time ever, to have routine date nights. Once a week-whoo hoo-now that makes me joyful.

2. Mistakes I've made: I let him drag the workshop on far too long, like 2 years too long. It only took him a short while to complete it once I put my foot down. I shouldn't have let him put my healing off that long. :no: I have not made him accountable in a lot of ways. I'm still not-but I'm hoping that doing the Couple's wkshop will help me to do this. I know he's recovering but I'm stunned by how the immaturity and addiction mind set has pervaded every aspect of our life. I will start holding him accountable in all aspects. He's out of the addiction fog, now I will expect him to mature.

3. Wow. I've role modeled more good things than I thought I was capable of. With God's help I've changed and I'm reaping the benefits, so are my husband and my kids. Our finances are, pretty much, in order. We belong to a supportive church. I go to Bible Study, work hard at it, and have made so many friends. He sees me take time for what I need now. I'm showing him that I matter and that I'm proud of myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:08 pm 
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REPOST/REDO EXERCISE 9

I expected this to be easier this time. I was wrong! I now owned the pain she was feeling and expressing. I wanted to say things all the way through. She explained the areas that applied like my emotional detachment, her self-doubt, and her uncertainty about healing together and trusting me again. The exercise was taken to another level due to her anxiety over a post that indicated step 3 of the couples recovery might not be available currently due to technical difficulties. She described our life together as her always chasing me and me not caring if she was around. That is not how I feel but my fantasy life was so much easier to control. I did not recognize the importance of involving her in my life and being in that life with her all the time instead of hiding or being secretive. I am fortunate because she loves me this much.


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 Post subject: Re: Now I get it and sameoldsameold couples lesson response
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:24 pm 
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REDO/ REPOST EXERCISE 10

There is one thing more than any other which would be critical for me in healing: TIME! I don't mean time to think or time to heal but an extended body of evidence that things were right and back where they should be in a relationship. I would need my partner to go above and beyond all expectations of RN and for them to wow me with there focus and commitment. I would need reassurance that puting trust in them would not again lead to broken hopes and promises. I would need strength in such magnitude to support this damaged person who had broken me and never learned to support themselves. I know going into this exercise that they do not have the skills to succeed from the start but must embrace a gambling spirit in their potential and desire to change. I would either have to be the world's biggest optimist or be able to ignore the evidence and embrace my gut feelings toward this individual. Not an easy task or one that seems profitable :? . It takes amazing love and strength as well as a strong will and desire to work together. :pe:


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