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 Post subject: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:44 pm 
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...as apposed to Ortus....


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:33 pm 
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I think we had a somewhat rough start in getting prepared and getting into the right mindset for this project. I found myself concentrating trying to make everything right. The feeding part was a little awkward in that I was feeding an adult, not a child. But it was enjoyable none the less.

Cere didn’t want to have her teeth brushed, so I respected this. Instead she asked me to cut her finger nails. I did so, but cautiously.

I read her a story that evidently was a bit too heady, so I found another one that was easier and more fun to read soon afterward. I’m glad I did, because she had an easier time following what I was reading, and I had an easier time and more fun reading it too her.
I enjoyed brushing her hair. I’m not used to combing hair where there may be knots, because my hair is short! So I had to slow down and take a little at a time, being careful not to hurt her. Sort of a meditation.

The most enjoyable activity was giving her a full body massage. Although it was not sexual I did make it somewhat romantic. I mixed oils and scented them. I laid a blanket down for her to lay on and gave her a sheet to cover whatever body parts I was not massaging. For me it was a way of protecting the boundaries so that the focus of the activity was not sexual, but just to care for her. It was also a way of showing her respect and providing her with a sense of safety. The purpose of the activity was to serve my partner, not myself Rewards I reaped were as a result of this. I lit candles and put on some music of her choice. I noticed that when I went to lift her foot or hand to massage it, she would lift it for me. I sensed that maybe she wasn’t used to having someone care for her without it seeming a burden.

Although we were both interested in being intimate sexually, we both agree to end the activities by watching something on TV for a while to make sure the exercise did not directly lead into it.

Because some of the activities were things I’m not used to doing, they were a little bit awkward. Overall, I enjoyed them. I like doing things to care for Cere anyway, so I looked forward to the exercises. Cere seemed to have some negative thoughts about our relationship running just prior to us beginning, but as we actually did it, she became more receptive and we ended the evening on a much more positive and affectionate note.


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:02 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Seth’s Contract for Cere

Developing the Contract
I. The first step in developing a healing contract is to clearly document your existing values and boundaries. Again, these are your values--not your partner's and not your relationship's. If you aren't clear what these are, simply list five to ten areas of your life that you value (your values) and ways that you will protect those values (your boundaries).

Acceptance /Patience/Contentment – I must not try to mold my spouse into something or somebody that she is not, but accept her for who she is. If I did otherwise, I would not love the person in front of me, but instead the image I created of her. My spouse will practice the same with me. We extend this to the children we are raising. Our children are not our children, but individuals in their own right.

Emotional Security – Each of us will act honorably, and honestly We will foster an environment of safety and trust. We can be ourselves, flaws and all, and know that it is safe to communicate our feelings and concerns, likes and dislikes, and know that we will not be attacked or lied to by the other person. Each of us should be able to consistently depend and rely on each other.

Forgiveness/Love – Each of us being able to forgive what is imperfect in the other. Even if we are in conflict, and I feel she has wronged me in some way, I remember that I too am imperfect and have at times wronged her. We sometimes attack each other or act in an unbecoming way when we fear that we will lose something precious to us. I will not condemn, but rather nurture and encourage what is sacred in this person who is both an individual in her own right, and yet a mirror of myself. I value my mate doing the same for me. We extend this love to the family we are raising.

Generosity – we are generous of our efforts and our time in service to each other and our family.

Honesty – I do not act in a way that would make me ashamed to tell my mate what I have been doing. When she asks me how I am doing I tell her the truth. I must be true to my word. My mate must be able to trust me and be able to rely on me. Therefore I must be trustworthy. My “yes” must be yes, and my “no” must be no. I must not make excuses with her or anyone else, including myself. If I do not acknowledge my wrongs, I cannot correct them and am doomed to repeat history. We must be honest with ourselves first if we are to be able to be honest with each other. Complete honesty requires courage, because I stand to lose what I have or not get what I want. Fear drives dishonesty. Courage, faith, hope, and love drive honesty. In doing so with ourselves and each other, we are able to extend this to the raising of our children.

Honor and Respect– We will express appreciation and respect for each other's strengths and weaknesses, similarities and differences. We will not attack each other, but treat each other as one of God’s kids’, no greater and no less then the other. We will listen to one another and think of each others needs. We will negotiate conflicts in ways that will meet each other’s needs and the needs of the relationship. We will often encourage and remind our partner what it is we genuinely find unique and wonderful about each other.

Humility - Not seeing myself as or acting like I am either the authority, or the greatest. Nor should I see or act as if I was an absolute worm. I am no more and no less God’s child then anyone else. This also applies to my spouse. I do not put my spouse up on a pedestal for worship, nor do I see her as inferior to me in any way. But I do love her for what is unique to her, and am grateful to have such a beautiful and wonderful person in my life.

Intimacy – To be present to my lover. When we are making love we are not lost in the past or future. Instead we are here in the moment with each other, fully aware of our needs and communicating our needs to one another in the safety of our relationship. Through time and practice, we come to know each other inside and out. We maintain our individual uniqueness while simultaneously being reflections of each other. We act likewise with the family we raise.

Material Security – We will both act responsibly and contribute toward the family’s financial needs being met. Each of us will delegate specific financial responsibilities. Even so, we will share all financial information with each other. We will agree together on all major financial decisions.

Monogamy/Fidelity – We have chosen each other as partners whose children, home, bed, and overall lives we share with each other. We do not allow the sacredness of our relationship to be violated or distracted by other intimate relationships. We dedicate our lives to this relationship, realizing that this is where our greatest growth occurs. When there are challenges, conflicts, boredom or restlessness in the relationship, we do not run from it. Instead, we realize that this is where our greatest potential for growth occurs. There is a safety in knowing that we will never abandon each other even in the face of adversity..

Trust – Where there is no trust there is no true love. We learn to trust each other, and trust ourselves. We act in ways worthy of each other’s sense of trust and safety – knowing that we grow through anything if we are committed to and honest with each other.

Trust in God – Knowing that the commitment we make for such a relationship requires some sacrifice of our individual desires can be scary at times. But we trust that when we commit to love within our relationship we trust that the universe will provide us with what we need to grow together

Unselfishness/Being considerate – of my mate and what her sensitivities are. Not using her sexually for my own pleasure. Our sex and love life should be conducted based on what is mutually pleasurable for both of us.

Responsibility – We show up for each other and support each other. We hold ourselves accountable for our own actions, and realize that we are stewards for each other and for the family we are raising.

Self-Care – We take care of our own bodies, minds and spiritual nourishment, realizing that we can’t give to each other what we cannot also give ourselves.


II. Next, put aside your list and allow yourself to think about the following questions in relation to your partner:

*Note: Although I am listing areas of concern for my partner, these are not the kinds of things that would terminate our relationship. I am well aware that my behaviors are the main reason we are here, and why we are seeking greater health in our relationship through this format. I realize that if I return to these behaviors, it very well may terminate the relationship permanently. My items of concerns for her are ones that would not necessarily destroy our relationship, but will very likely impede on our progress together if they continue.

What behaviors would you find completely unacceptable in your partner?

Disrespecting my privacy by investigating my computer files without my permission. (Trust, respect, dignity, honesty, safety)
• If investigating my computer files without my consent occurs, 1 week of no personal use of my computer.
• If investigating my writings, paperwork, journals, etc. without my permission, I will not leave you in my house without my being there for 1 month. By the end of this period I will reassess my level of trust in allowing you to stay in my house without my being there.

Attacking through email (Respect, dignity)
• If this takes place while I’m at work, I will send out a warning that we have to stop talking about whatever subject is at the root of the conflict. If attacks continue or escalate, I will discontinue all contact through email or Facebook until I get home.
• If this takes place while I am at home, I will send out a warning that we have to stop talking about whatever subject is at the root of the conflict. If attacks continue or escalate, I will discontinue all contact through email or Facebook until the following day (with the exception of saying “goodnight.”)

What behaviors would cause you to worry about your partner's overall balance?

Yelling at her children and children’s friends (patience, respect)

• If I perceive that her yelling is excessive in proportion to the offense, and it is ongoing, I will wait until we are alone. After things have cooled down, and/or when the children are no longer in the same room, I will talk with her about what is bothering her, and try to support her emotionally.

What behaviors would symbolize a return to their addiction and/or a detriment to their own healing?

Not doing her own individual work (self-care)
• If you stops doing your individual work I will ask why you have decided to stop, and if you allows me, we will discuss alternative solutions to whatever the problem is. Ultimately, I will respect your decision. If, however, your stopping results in any of the above mentioned behaviors, the same consequences will still apply.

Dropping therapy (self-care)
• If you discontinue therapy I will ask why you have decided to stop, and if you allows me, we will discuss alternative solutions to whatever the problem is. Ultimately, I will respect your decision. If, however, you stopping results in any of the above mentioned behaviors, the same consequences will still apply.


What healthy behaviors would you like to see from your partner in response to what has been identified above?

Continue doing individual work
Seeing therapist

· As long as you are doing things that are life enhancing, I will offer words of encouragement and look for other ways to support your efforts. A natural consequence of us both doing our individual work is that we will be in a healthier position to work on any challenges that come up in our relationship. We will not work against each other during these times. We will work as a team.


Last edited by seth on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:17 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:28 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:07 pm 
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I, Eric M., do pledge:

To take personal responsibility for ending addiction in my life.

To not allow any excuses, obstacles or challenges distract me from this responsibility.

To make the transition to a healthy life a top priority--above even saving my marriage/relationship.

An understanding that there are no guarantees inherent with recovering as a couple. That the decision to continue the relationship has not yet been made. That a healthy decision can't be made until two healthy individuals merge from this recovery or it becomes apparent that such health will not be achieved.

To invest the next six months (at least) of my life developing new life management skills and learning how to effectively use them.

To continue to evolve the skills that I learn (on my own and as a team), long after the workshop has ended.

To make decisions based on long-term health, not short-term advantage.

To encourage my partner in her healing efforts. Not to hijack or manage those efforts, but to support her management of them.

Not to seek/assign blame for the problems in our relationship but rather, to acknowledge that there are problems and work together to solve them.

To construct a value system that consists of no less than eight active areas of my life that are capable of generating meaning and purpose (e.g. marriage, career, kids, hiking, music, etc.)

To mechanically monitor my life as laid out by the Recovery Workshop for at least six months. This will involve one month of (less than five minutes) daily monitoring and five months of (less than fifteen minutes) weekly monitoring.

To never consciously deceive my partner as a means of minimizing personal responsibility for my actions or 'protecting' her from pain.

That I have shared everything about my addiction to the best of my recollection/willingness. And that anything I continue to hold on to, I am doing so because I am not ready to share it openly.

That I have no hidden relationships, accounts, magazines, files, etc., that I have stashed away. All of them have been either destroyed or acknowledged.

That I will not allow a single compulsive urge to go unchallenged. I may not be able to control these urges, but I will never allow them to evolve into destructive action without putting up a conscious fight.

That I will immediately share with my partner, support system and/or recovery coach any ritual that I do not manage successfully.

To communicate to my partner and/or support system those times when I recognize complacency, confusion or conflict settling in to my recovery.

To monitor my recovery for signs of 'going through the motions' and take action when such signs are observed.

To seek as a privilege, not a punishment, opportunities to develop my emotional maturity and life skills.

To learn and respect the evolving values of my partner.

To accept all consequences of all my decisions. That includes any decision to withhold information, to engage in secret behavior, etc. I understand that it doesn't matter if the consequences are reasonable or just. Just as I have chosen to engage in the behavior; others have the choice of how they will respond. I am responsible for my actions.

To accept all consequences from having violated my partner's boundaries. This, as dictated by my partner's observations, not my own.

Keep mindful that my partner is imperfect and deserves understanding and patience. That she will make mistakes--some in direct contradiction to what is healthy.

To discover, acknowledge and eliminate all destructive communication rituals that I engage in.

To never use violence, emotional abuse, coercion or other threats to manipulate or otherwise control/repress my partner.

To respect my partner's boundaries surrounding sexuality: including a refrain from unwanted sexual advances, sexual pressure, sexual expectation, etc. I recognize that any sexual activity between us during this period of recovery must be mutually desired.

I hereby also agree to and will expect my partner to uphold her own boundaries and consequences as laid out for me.

We have both signed original copies of this contract.


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:13 am 
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Situation #1
There exists something about your addiction that you were afraid to tell your partner about. The further you get into recovery, the more you realize the importance of absolute honestly not simply as a policy for recovery but as a value for your life. You now want to share with her these additional disclosures but don't know how. You fear her response will be targeted towards the behaviors themselves, not the maturity and growth that was at the center of wanting to disclose.

INEFFECTIVE RESPONSE: “I have something I haven’t disclosed to you yet that I want to tell you. But you have to promise not to get upset.” (If she gets angry and starts attacking the behaviors, continue ) “This is exactly what I was afraid of. I’m doing all this good stuff, and thought if I told you it would show you how well I’m dong in my recovery. Instead you’re trying to punish me. Well, then I’m not going to say anything to you anymore. How can I be honest when you react this way? You need to work on your issues. Otherwise, I’m leaving!”

EFFECTIVE RESPONSE: “There are some things about my past that I was afraid to disclose to you earlier in my recovery. I know that if I’m going to continue becoming the man I’m supposed to be, I have to share these last few things with you.” (If she get’s angry and starts attacking the behaviors, respond )

“How have my actions affected you.” Agree with where she is right. Where she is making wrong assumptions, say “That is simply not the case.”
“I know I have not been totally honest with you in the past. You have every right not to trust me, and to be upset. It was scary for me to tell you. I want to make things right.”

But mostly I need to shut up and just listen.

Situation #2
After achieving two months of complete abstinence, you are feeling sexually frustrated and allow yourself to view porn for twenty minutes while you masturbated. She was in the next room sleeping. She is completely unaware of what you did. What's more, you have covered your tracks effectively, recognize that you wouldn't have engaged in this behavior if she wouldn't have sexually rejected you earlier in the night and feel certain it was just an anomaly. You are thinking to yourself that communicating this event to her will cause more problems than they will solve.

INEFFECTIVE RESPONSE: Don’t say anything and hope she doesn’t pick up on it. Besides, it was her fault anyway. I don’t want to hear her anger at me. I’m sensitive. I won’t be able to handle it.
EFFECTIVE RESPONSE: Within 24 hours. “I had a slip. Last night I was feeling sorry for myself, and I masturbated to porn for 20 minutes.” After she throws the frying pan at me: “I probably deserved that.” You have every right to be angry with me. It wasn’t your fault, but at the time I was feeling entitled. I used it as an excuse. I’m sorry I chose to find relief and pleasure for myself at your expense of your well-being. It was immature and selfish and inconsiderate of me. I’m sorry. ”


Situation #3
You have maintained abstinence from all overt sexual rituals. Still, a haunting feeling of insecurity and doubt has begun to develop inside your head. You don't want to act out, but are feeling uncertain as to your ability to maintain your abstinence.

INEFFECTIVE RESPONSE: Don’t say anything. “I’m fine. I’m doing great!”
EFFECTIVE RESPONSE: Right now I’m feeling squirrely. I want to recover, but the urge is pretty strong sometimes, and I’m not sure how well I’ll handle it each time this happens. I’m scared.”


Situation #4
Your partner comes to you with concerns about you having lied about the details of an affair. You have been through this with her many times and nothing ever changes. Your answers remain the same (because they are truthful); her accusations remain (because she believes them to be truthful). You are at an impasse. (Note: this might be more difficult to process than the others so, work together to generate an effective response. Don't allow frustration to enter into the picture. See this as a puzzle to solve together.

INEFFECTIVE RESPONSE: I’VE TOLD YOU OVER AND OVER THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT AFFIAR. WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT FROM ME? I’VE TOLD YOU EVERYTHING! GIVE IT A REST! I’M DOING EVERYTHNG I’M SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, AND ALL I HEAR IS SHIT FROM YOU!

EFFECTIVE RESPONSE: I’m not lying. What you are accusing me of is simply not the case. I know that if I admitted that what you’re thing is true, then I would actually be lying to you. It’s simply not the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:13 am 
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The above entry are my answers for Exercise #5.


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:33 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:41 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:10 am 
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I agreed with Cere's responses as well. I just reread her responses, and experienced a recognition with this one:

Situation #4
You find yourself feeling frisky and so you make a few sexual overtures towards your partner that are quickly brushed off. You are feeling hurt and rejected.

Effective Response: Check for irrational beliefs (This definitely means he's been looking at porn, I'm not a desirable woman, he's found someone to fantasize over). Wait a few moments and then sincerely open the lines of communication "I feel like there is some distance between us, But I don't know why".

I recently started taking a medication that tends to reduce the sex drive. For the first few days I was lethargic and zombie -like. I felt very little emotion, even when I got a flat tire on the highway. It was sort of like having a lobotomy without needing stitches. After talking with her about it, it appears that she thought that I wasn't interested in her anymore and that I had returned to acting out. Neither was true, but it made sense why she might feel that way.

I guess that if she said, ""I feel like there is some distance between us, But I don't know why" - maybe leave the "I don't know why" part out of it, and instead state exactly why - Which she usually does in real life anyway. So it's actually not an issue in real life.

Overall responses were fantastic.


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:09 am 
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Initially, Ceres emailed me her response. Because I was only to listen, I asked if we could review what she wrote. I didn't necessarily hear anything I didn't already know from Ceres, but I needed to hear it again.

We had made an appointment to do this last Wednesday night. Unfortunately, her anger about certain aspects of my addiction became so heated that I didn't feel that it would be a good time to do this exercise. So we did it on Saturday morning after the dust settled.

One of the things I needed to hear again from Ceres - I had a history of offering "partial" honesty in relation to my addiction. This has negatively impacted on her ability to trust me. Sometimes she already knew something was up when I was acting out or not allowing her full access to documented that contained information that I had so far withheld from her. So my secrecy and lack of honesty made her feel crazy and magnified her level of anxiety.

Every time I acted out with porn (especially with material that brought up trauma issues from her past) Ceres feels disrespected. If I choose to act out on these behaviors again, would be the ultimate act of disrespect to her and our relationship. She would interpret such acts to mean that my relationship with her is not as important to me. It would be the ultimate unloving act, as it would re-traumatize her.

And what do I value? An open and honest relationship filled with love, safely, and trust. To go back to acting out on porn goes against these values. How can she rely on me if I choose otherwise, and make myself emotionally unavailable because my attention is directed toward sex as a selfish act, not a loving act?

Even though much of her thinking process comes from a subjective perspective, I pretty much agree with her on these points. To hear it gives me greater insight into how my actions effect her mind and her soul, which she has to some degree entrusted to me to care for.

I don't remember what she said, but I think she made one wrong assumption about me. But it did't matter. i didn't respond or get defensive or correct her. I just needed to listen. I believe I did.


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:25 am 
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Exercise 10

Ask yourself the following: “If my partner did the things that I have done—exactly as I have done them—what would I need in order to rebuild my trust in him/her?” Really think about this. What would you want from them, expect from them, demand from them? Share these thoughts in your Couple's Thread.


I would want to see consistent behavior that matches up with her sincere efforts to stop acting out and therefore committing emotional infidelity to our relationship. I would want her to be completely honest with me. I would want to know that she was actively and consistently working on her issues in therapy, Recovery Nation, and/or her 12 Step group. She wouldn't necessarily have to do all of these, as long as whatever she is doing works, and she is consistently showing a sincere commitment to get well as demonstrated by her engagement of these activities.

I would like her to be able to account for all of her time. Any deviancy to what would make me feel safe about our relationship and her recovery would send a red flag up, even if she was not doing anything wrong in and of itself.

I need to feel validated, so if I suspect something's not quite right with her "recovery", I don't want to be treated like I'm crazy. It's disrespectful and leaves me hanging. I wouldn't want to feel any more anxious then I was already experiencing. I would want her to listen to my fears and concerns about our relationship without it turning into an argument. That would indicate to me that she is in denial about her addiction and isn't taking it seriously. It would also indicate that she cared less about how her behavior effected me, and would be more concerned about herself.

For myself I would need to practice patient and give my partner time to recover. I would want the same from her as I tried to regain trusting her and help to rebuild her relationship.

I want a partner who is honest, takes responsibility for her actions, validates me, and sows a willingness and desire to change.


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 Post subject: Re: Seth And Ceres Couple's Thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:45 pm 
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