Recovery Nation

Hi.

I am just starting a thread and marking my place as a.commitment to myself to start the workshops tomorrow.

A little bit about me.

I am the partner of a porn addict who has been in recovery since our disclosure/disaster/dealing with/demolition day of 1/9/10

I have been enjoying the support of members of another forum since then but now feel I am ready to start rebuilding myself and the hopefully to rebuild our relationship together with him.

Hi!

Hi moving_forward,
Welcome to Recovery Nation. This is a self-led healing workshop which is the best kind because it offers you opportunities for self empowerment. I'm glad that you now feel ready to start "rebuilding yourself" and are taking this step. Healing is a process that take time and hard work but is so worth your continued effort. I look forward to reading your first lesson.

Just remember to use the reply button to continue your thread and keep it in one place. I'll check back with you when post your lesson.

Nellie James

Thank-you Nellie


Here goes!

Stage One; Lesson One: Your Path to Healing
Take some time to share your background in relation to the discovery of your partner's sexual and/or romantic compulsions/addiction.


I have previously shared my story in full on another forum of which I am a member so I will post a summary here.


(actually its quite a long summary so the short version for anyone stumbling across this thread is...

Both early 30s, married with kids, found out 4 onths ago that he has a porn addiction and has been frequenting chat rooms, forums on sexual cannabilism and maintaining email contact with multiple users sicne before we wre married. We are still together. He is in activie recovery. I'm having none of his crap and am not going down the codependent route BUT he is the man I love, we have children together and even if he broke our marriage vows I made them too and this falls under in sickness and in health.


Longer Summary!

Me

I'm in my early 30s, my parents divorced when I was preteen and I have one younger brother who was so violent and emotionally abusive to me that I have no contact with him now.

I was the school swot, not sporty, not attractive, spent so long looking after my brother and bailing my mum out of various disasters and working part time to pay the rent that studying didn't always get done no matter how late I stayed up - but somehow I breezed through school academically and made it to university.

I had a great group of friends, all better off than us, all with both parents at home etc but it didn't matter and at 17 I started dating one of them who became my first sexual partner. We moved in together at 20 and split at 21. We were too young and 'unformed' when we met and grew apart as we matured into adulthood. While it was fairly amicable I hurt him and felt incredibly guilty.

I went off the rails a bit, drink, cannabis, still attended a lot of lectures but fell asleep a lot too! I ended up in open relationsips with two guys - both of who knew about the other and neither we serious. Retrospectivly they were using me but I was using them too - just to reach oblivion.

At 22 I took a step back, became more spiritual, haven't touched alcohol or drugs since then, finished with both guys and got down with my studies. Picked up a handful of part time jobs to make ends meet and ended up getting quite close with a previous friend and colleague - my husband to be.

Him



Eldest child in a family where highly expressed emotion, physical violence, secrecy and over identification with the children was the family norm.

I am his second sexual partner. His first porn exposure was as a teenager and he became addict in his late teens when he 'medicated' to deal with a chronic pain issue (now long passed following surgery) and feelings of lonliness.

Us

Married 6 years ago 2 young children. Lots of financial difficulties and stress from family (mainly his) But otherwise we both thought we had the 'perfect' marriage - best freinds, partners in everything, lifelong comittment to making this work....... or so I thought.

The problem

In the year prior to our wedding I came across his porn 'stash'

The porn was bad.

Really bad. Erotic literature, underwear catalogues, pages from porn mags - all cut out holes punched and put in a massive file FFS!


The worst was the art - drawings he had done himself, detailed artistry depicting naked women impaled on stakes, spitroasted (the food kind not with men) it disgusted me. he also had semi erotic shots of his previous girlfriend. I threw up, put the keys through the letter box and went hom. I told my flatmate, I was so in shock. She said leave hm, she was his friend aswell but she said leave now or he will hurt you more - but I didn't listen, I thought I knew best, I was the only one who understood him, I thought he deserved a chance to explain.

I confronted him and he cried, lied and said he had got into it due to a girl at school who was involved with fetish sexual cannabalism but that it was the thought that 'someone loved me so much they would do anything for me, even let me eat them' that appealed to him. he binned it all, promised it was over. I believed him, I took him back.

A little while later he left himself logged in on a computer with a fake id that he was using for porn and chat yahoo groups. Again I confronted him, again he apologised, again I took him back


We were by mutual choice not physically intimate until after our marriage and so I thought that it was due to that and it would stop when we were married.

Once in 2005 I found a pic of a naked man on the scanner. I asked him and he said it was for a joke to a friend. I thought nothing of it - after all, my husband wasn't gay.

Our sex life had never been brilliant. Having waited until we were married I wanted to build up to it slowly and he had independently said the same, but he surprised me on our honeymoon by being extremely 'up for it'. I loved the closeness but it did feel as if he was 'doing his duty'. For a while after that he would push me away. I was never allowed to touch him intimately, he would never talk to me about his sexuality, what he found attractive,, what he liked in bed. He said he didn't really know what he liked since he never really even mb. Talking about it would uspet and embarrass him horrendously so eventually I stopped trying. We have two children o it wasn't like we never did, but it was rare and usually me who initiated it. After kids the situation didn't change much but I was too tired to care. It wasn't partculary important to me by this stage as we had such a close and fulfilling marriage in other ways. Apparently that was a lie.

I do rememebr feelign intense guilt when I was too tired or not interested and he was. When he would initiate I would often back off. He tended to be so full on and intense I couldn't handle it but telling hurt him so I kept stum.

He has always been very secretive and private, taking his phone everywhere he goes etc. He has in the past got tangled up with various females - nothing physical but always emotionally fragile, domestic violence., mental health issues that he helps out just as friends, except they keep calling him and he goes, meets them for coffee etc when at work so I never know until it reaches crisis point and they start threaning suicide or similar if he doesn't call them back. Warning signs think I! but only in retrospect, at the time this was my gentle, loving, caring husband, I married him because of his strong sense of right and wrong, his want to help everyone - how can I complain??

After the last one (in 2008) I check his phone quite a bit - not quite trusting he isn't in another scrape but never thinking it was deliberate.


September 2010 and its late at night. He is settling the baby downstairs and I can't sleep wondering if the baby needs another feed. I look at his phone. I look at the bookmarks. There are sexual cannabilism sites listed. I tell him to put the baby to bed and ask him to explain.

To cut a long story short he has been frequenting gay and straight sexual cannabalism sites since before we were together. he stoped a few times but always went back after periods of stress. He wrote erotic stories to a women shortly after we returned from honeymoon, he was sneding photos of himself naked posed as dead meat and has done so in almost everywhere we have lived together. I have seen the photos and wish I had known the concept of formal discloure at the time - the images never leave me. He tried to say it was just the sites but gave me his passwords and they linked to an email address. He has been doing it daily for years, Long conversations with men and women, never met the, never webcammed (although how can I trust him) but mb to porn, to stories, and got off onthe chase, the hunt for the best pic the conversations, I think truly that logging on to see if he had an email was more of an addiction than the porn - it just hit the same bit in his brain.


I did threaten to leave him, I didn't threaten but I asked him how I could possibly stay, I really didn't know. It was likehe was a stranger, I wanted to mourn and grieve for my wonderful loving husband, my soulmate, but this bastard wouldn't let me and kept telling me he loved me. When he got upset I held him, I can't bear to see him sad - he held me and cried and said sorry, that I was amazing that he was scum and hadn't realised how bad it had got. He said he had wanted to walk away and always thought he could just drop it any time, that he hadnt thought of it as cheating, that he never saw those guys and girls in the way he saw me and if he had to choose he would choose me again and again and again. He said the thought of those images, of the porn made him feel sick the second he had seen the betrayal on my face, that he had not realised until that moment what harm it could do.




So where are we now?

He is in obvious pain but celebrating small triumphs.

I love him so much and want to support him and help him with the underlying issues but I also want answers that he can't give me.

Why did he go back after I first found out?

Why didn't he come to me?

How can he claim self hatred and low self esteem when I have told himand shown him every day of our marriage that I adore him, respect him and love him unconditionally. I will always love him. I just don't like him much at the moment.

Why didn't our marriage, the birth of our children stop him!

Why take photos with his bloody face in them and risk our childrens future!

WHY WHY WHY!!!

WTF was he thinking!


I will never get these answers I think. He wants to tell me but he either doesn't know or can't let himself know.

It feels like all we ever do is deal with the underlying issues - poor little addict, not his fault, damaged by his parents, unable to form attachments, unable to accept praise or love, needing the anonymous appreciation of a computer screen! Poor little addict -messed up spouse!

For the first 3 months he was seeing a counseller weekly but neither he or I felt it was helping the situation - apparently she spent a lot of time talking about herself which we thought was very unprofessional but he has now found a CSAT about 20 miles away who he has made contact with. We shall see.

[/i]

Hi Moving_forward,
I received your first lesson and want to take time to go ove it carefully before I comment. Take a breather - I can tell you did a very thorough job. I'll get back to your by tomorrow.

Nellie James

Thanks Nellie, I'm going to try and do a lesson every 2/3 days as I think any sooner will waste the opportunity for letting the last lesson sink in. I really appreciate you keeping an eye out for me - I know its self-help but it really helps the motivation to know someone is listening. Thank-you

Glad to see you MF, and sorry to see you here all at the same time. RN has already been enormously helpful to me and I have only just begun. I hope that it helps you as much.

Also, given the nature of your H's collection, I thought that you might find this article interesting. I did, anyway. It talks about how a PA escalates into some bizarre types of P, even though they might not "like" it. I just thought that it might put some of the cannibalism into perspective. I hope that it helps.
http://www.reuniting.info/science/porn_ ... tive_brain

Hugs!

Thanks Ames, happy to see a friend.

The article is very interesting thank ypu. I'm not sure I agree with their long term solution (sex without orgasms) but the understanding of the causes is very encouraging and gives me a little peace so thank you

Haha I felt the same way about the "advice" portion, but I was interested in the concept that they put forth about the manner of escalation. At least it seemed to humanize it to me - I had a hard time understanding and associating the degrading material (P) to the person that I knew to be a loving, thoughtful man.

Hi moving-foward,
Well, I can't believe that I just lost the entire post I just wrote to you. Ain't technology great. Actually it is. It brought this amazing community of women together on RN - what a gift to us

My head is hurting - sinus infection and this new program. Whatever I clicked on didn't do what I expected. So bear with me. I am going to re-write my post on Word and paste it in.

Nellie James

Don't worry Nellie, I'll wait - its kind of you to check in especially when you aren't feeling great. I hate it when that happens, its always after the long posts and I should know better and cut and paste now just in case but I never do!

feel better soon.
x

Dear Moving_forward,

What began as a few comments from me grew beyond the norm. First, it’s great that your H is in active recovery. That’s a plus. And I commend your values regarding your marriage vows and your sense of self. The "co-dependent route” you refer is a box that often doesn’t fit the SA wife. I think most of us felt that we were loyal trusting wives who were blindsided.

Your knowledge of his childhood, his self-medicating to deal with chronic pain, his feelings of loneliness, and the family norm of secrecy will be helpful in your understanding, not excusing his SA behaviors, thus giving you room and energy to focus on your own healing rather than trying to figure out his choices.



Many of us felt we had the perfect marriage. We believed our dream to be his dream, too. Perhaps, the lesson here is that we each need our own dream, our own vision for our life based on what we value.


I hear you. It feels like it’s all about him. Well, it’s not. And this is where the shift takes place.. The Partners’ Workshop is about You AND YOUR HEALING. At this stage your focus needs to be on you, by you, for you. And you’ve made a good start. It’s wise to set a pace that suits you in doing your lessons and try maintain that momentum. I advise you not to read ahead but to concentrate on the lesson you are doing. Remember this is a continuum with one lesson building upon the other, taking one issue at a time. Less confusing that way.

I will check in with you again in about four more lessons. You are doing good work. Keep it up. Above all, understand that this is a process unique to you. When you have questions, need to vent, or want to share, the Community Forum is a great resource. The women here are a gift to us all in their collective wisdom and experience.

Please give yourself the Gift of Patience.

Nellie James

Thank-you Nellie, Its is good to know I am on the right track. Onwards and upwards.

Thank-you so much for your time

[b]Exercise 2: Developing a healthy vision for my life[/b]


This is my vision of where I want to be.

Me

I am a person driven by my core values of trust, honesty, integrity and compassion. I interact with the world through reference to these values and to my faith and I allow myself to expect others to respect my values. I have given myself permission to surround myself only with people who share these values and not to waste time on people and things I cannot change. I have personal courage and strength when dealing with things in my life that I am apprehensive about. I have adequate financial security and a secure family home for my children but beyond that I do not seek material advancement or envy those who have more wealth or opportunities. I am filled with immense gratitude to God for each and every day in this life, for my children and for every opportunity I have been given. I pray with an open heart, and see every kindness as an act of worship. I do not waste or squander time and I no longer wish each day away by 'just surviving until bedtime'. I am content.




My Husband

I am lovingly married to a man who adores me. He is my partner in life, in everything and we share ourselves selflessly and fully with each other above and beyond the other relationships in our lives. We compromise where necessary, share our needs and desires from the mundane to the intimate. We argue sometimes, but constructively, and safe in the knowledge that our love is unconditional and without judgement. We work together for each others happiness and the happiness and wellbeing of our children.

My Children

I am an involved mother whose children feel listened to and loved for who they are. I have near endless energy for play, imagination for stories and my children never feel that their needs are not being met or that their opinions are not valued. I share my faith with them without prejudice and raise them to be moral, secure young men who share my values of trust, honesty, integrity and compassion and apply these values equally to friends, family, strangers and themselves.

Wider Family

I have strong ties with my mother and father and have reintroduced contact with my brother. I also have strong ties with my husbands siblings and maintain contact with his parents. I accept all members of our families for the people they are, respecting their differences and own problems but realising that their actions are without malice or understanding. I have forgiven them for the damage done to our family but maintain my own boundaries for behaviour I accept from them. I do not allow them to cause psychological, emotional or physical harm to my children or myself. I support my husbands right to the same should he make that choice for himself.


Friends

I have restablished and reinforced friendships with old friends (specifically C,L,M,K,P,K,A,K,Y,U,S,H) and moved out of my comfort zone and made new friends locally through toddler groups and classes. I have maintained friendship with my neighbours and formed a close and supportive network for our family. I have been more open in my friendships with K, U, and C and accepted that all of my friends are friends with me because they like me - so I have no need to feel I am bothering them, or wasting their time when I call or arrange to meet them.


Work

I have a secure job working in the field in which I have trained. I am in an environment where I am valued and my temporary need for flexibility with regard to childcare is understood in balance with the potential for 20/30 years as a reliable employee. I have financial security for my family which I define as sufficient for our needs, sufficient for emergencies and sufficient to give my own children some assistance in their own lives so they can have opportiunities we did not.

A) Brainstorm the times when your 'gut feelings' have been right about your partner's sexual and/or romantic behavior. Include times when you feel strongly that you were right (though it may never have been proven either way).

Red Flags
When I first found his porn collection 2003
When I found his login to a porn related yahoo group and emails 2003
When I found a porn-related picture on the home scanner 2005

Amber Flags
Lack of intimacy
When he told me he didn't mb
That his previous relationships were so dysfunctional
The nonsexual relationships with 'women in need'
That he took his phone everywhere with him


Looking back that is all I can come up with brainstorming. One of the things I find most disturbing is that even now I know when and where and how he was accessing it and what he was doing I can't even say I was suspicious in retrospect. There were a few odd things (amber flags) but other than that no warning at all after our marriage.


B) Identify as many major situations as you can where you allowed your head/heart to override your 'gut feelings' in relation to your partner's behavior.

All the red and amber flags above. I thought I was being silly overreacting, being jealous and he convinced me that I was - I learnt not to trust my own judgement as he presented it as norma behaviour and I was the one with the problem. I have spent years saying I was jealous and being surprised that he didn't act jealously towards me. Of course I never gave him any reason to be jealous while he gave me plenty.



C) Relying on the experience you have gained, make a list of likely behaviors, situations and/or feelings that may trigger a conflict between your gut instinct, your value system and/or reality.

My husband works irregular shifts and is there is potential for him to be legitamately late home without warning. I want to trust him but I know in the past he has acted out at work and it makes me nervous.

He is an early bed and hates to stay up late, so when he wants to work on the computer after I am in bed it makes me suspicious even though it is probably because he is working on recovery stuff.

My husband has lots of female friends on facebook that I have never met. Mainly old work colleagues that he befriended 'so as to not offend anyone' This makes me nervous even though I know he very rarely logs on.

I have to go back to work soon and by husband will be caring for the children for a few hours on his own in the week. In the past he has used this time to access porn while the children played. I am worried he will do it again and expose them to it.

Things that make /would make me uncomfortable:
If I found the phone or computer histories wiped
If he went back to taking the phone into the shower / toilet
When I find scraps of paper with numbers written on them. I worry they are girls numbers even though he has always done this.



Basically at all times my gut is screaming watch out! I think it is probably overreacting to the fact I didn't see anything before when he was doing it. I have so few things even looking back that made me suspicious so know it is there all the time. The problem is also that my instinctive response, my gut response if you like is still to trust him even though I know in my head that that isn't sensible.

1) Make a list of those values in your partner's life that--in your gut--you believe is a part of him. Set aside the addiction and the behaviors that were a part of that addiction. Focus on what values you believe will survive the recovery process. Post these in your Healing Thread. If there is a time when you are feeling close to your partner, share these thoughts with him--so that he knows that you are beginning to separate the addiction from his core identity.

1. Honesty: He really does value honesty very highly, its just that he doesn't think it applies to him. He seems under the illusion that lies are allowed if it avoids conflict and that lies about he is feeling ie never saying when he is upset or annoyed, is always fine as he thinks he is the only one it hurts and he is somehow 'strong enough' to 'take it'

2. Being a good dad: He is terrified of becoming the father that his own father is and he is a brilliant dad. The kids adore him, he is hands on and he always puts them first (except for one time he watched porn while the baby was playing in the same room)

3. Care and compassion: He is very caring and very empathic, easily upset by others pain but tends to try and use humour to cover or hide it. I hope during recovery this can be channelled into more useful avenues.

4. Loyalty: he is very loyal to friends and family, anyone really that he knows actually. He can take this a bit far sometimes and will go somewhere he gets rubbish service just to be loyal which is annoying. His loyalty to family can stop him saying what he realy means for fear of uspetting them.

5. Hard Work: He works very hard at everything he does. I wish he would take a break sometimes. He even works hard at looking after me (just brought me another cup of tea) problem is I will never know now how much of this is guilt.

6. Being a good husband: He really does love me and value me and yes, respects me. Somehow he didn't see before how his actions went totally against that. He has stopped as soon as he realised. I don't 'quite' understand how he didn't realise since he was hiding it from me and knew it was wrong but I do believe that he didn't realise the significnce.



2) Make a list of those qualities in your partner that you believe will continue to pose as obstacles throughout your relationship.


Obviously I am assuming that the biggest obstacle (which I see as lying to himself) will be in the past.

1. That he pushes himself too far, with everything. From work to exercise to family life to helping other to his own family - everything.

2. That he isn't and will never be able to be unaffected by the manipulation, emotional blackmail, verbal abuse, secrets and lies that his family employ as part of their normal lives - neither will he be able to speak to them about it or distance himself from it. I would be quite happy to continue the status quo if he could not let it upset him or interfere with our own family.

3. That he puts me on a pedestal and it bloody irritates me. Even more so now that i realise it is a reflection of his own guilt and lack of self worth.

4. That he is ridiculously disorganised. He is really trying with this one but I can't see there will ever be a situation where for example I could trust him to sort out school applications, kids medical stuff etc. He could do it, he is capable and he does occasionally do things (he is doing his car insurance now) but I will never be able to not check.... or find out when he has an accident that he forgot to actually post the paperwork!