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 Post subject: Frost's Healing Thread
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:29 am
Posts: 133
Lesson One

I didn’t know what to think. I still don’t. I’m sure his family thought they’d never see me again. I received an apologetic note from his mother and texts from his brother-in-law, checking on me.

When I got the first disclosure he explained he had an addiction to porn and masturbated multiple times a day—even on days when we had great sex—all in an attempt at relieving ongoing depression and anxiety. He also enjoyed cybersex and engaged in that with random women online. (This I suspected already. I would explain, but that would consume too many words, so I’m skipping it.)

The depression and anxiety I already knew about, as he had revealed it over time, so I could see the connections. I also felt he told me only the absolute minimum that day. What he absolutely had to. Was there more? I feel like there has to be, although he denies it and gets defensive if I push.

I am no closer to resolving any of this than I was seven months ago and there appears to be no end in sight. I feel exhausted by it all.

I still seem him regularly and when we’re together I feel wonderful—loved and supported. But often, when we’re apart, I wonder what the hell is going on. Who is he chatting with online? What’s going on?

I am now in a weird place—alternating between rage and hurt and empathy and support. It is eating up too much of everything in my life right now. I need to get a handle on it and get some direction. I am also dealing with someone who insists everything’s alright now, even though I find that nearly impossible to believe.


Last edited by Frost on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Frost's Healing Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:24 am 
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Partner's Coach (Admin)

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 4641
Hello Frost and welcome to Recovery Nation.

I am sorry that your life circumstances are such that you have to be here, but know that here is a very good place to be. The lessons and support community are invaluable.

Taking the wait and see approach is always recommended in the early part of healing simply because of the volatility of your emotions. You want to make choices based in sound and grounded choice, not based on emotional whims.

Your confusion is due to the dissonance between what you know about this man (the reality that he shared with you, which is a projection of what he intellectually knows is socially accepted and expected) and the reality that is enclosing in on him and by extention you, which is the secret self, the one that exists in the shadows and that he will do whatever he can to keep it in the dark, to keep you in the dark. An addict will say anything to try to manipulate others to fit their objectives. With that, you are as much of an object in his life as the young women in the porn, as the girls in the chat rooms. Your role is in his social life, the others play a role in his secret sexual life. The things that he revealed to you show how ingrained this secret self is, such that the line between secret and social is slowly becoming blurred. Another possibility is that he was slowly introducing his odd behaviours to "test the waters" or to acclimate you such that you gradually adapt to his values, thereby skewing yours.

Also, the support that he is getting, the crisis work that he is doing, is only as effective as he makes it which depends on his active application of the program. It is possible that he will do all that is necessary to survive this crisis, and then return to status quo. When "recovery" is imposed by external forces (in this case legal action) it is rarely adopted and internalized permanently. A permanent transition to health requires internal motivation and active, consistent participation on the part of the person in recovery, beyond the immediacy of the crisis at hand. Only time will tell where he is with this, but that this has come about becuase of his arrest is not promising. This is the reality of the majority.

This is a lot to take in, for sure. The best thing you can do for yourself is continue your path to healing, one lesson at a time. Know that it will be a roller coaster but the overall results will be healing and you will regain your balance and stability. It is work, and it is worthwhile.

Be well.

_________________
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)


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 Post subject: Re: Welcome
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Posts: 133
Thank you so much for the kind words and helpful insight. I'm very grateful for the resources here and look forward to using them to get a handle on this situation and learn how best to deal with it.

Thanks again. :)


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 Post subject: Lesson Two
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Posts: 133
Lesson Two

Vision and Values

The values I cherish most are family, creativity, compassion, tolerance, reason, whimsy, education, and community. I am reasonably to very good at all of these.

I haven’t lost all of these over the past year or so of my current relationship. My kids are grown and I share very good relationships with both kids. They are happy and successful adults and we are close. Other things, though, have fallen by the wayside; first when I was distracted with a fun, happy, new romance, and then when I was derailed by discovery. Then there are the things I’ve needed to develop for years.

Values and traits I want to develop more fully are courage, strength, self-confidence, decision-making, and goal setting.

• Goal-setting. Hey, I’m getting started on that by embarking on that here now. Yay me.

• Courage. Oh, I am bad at this one. It goes hand-in-hand with my lack of self-confidence. I want and need to show a little more strength and courage in my life. This will help me get to where I want to be professionally—doing something I love to do, with the resources to finally financially sever the ties with my ex-husband. I need to sit down and figure out how to make the most out of my professional resources, then reach out to people that can help. To this end I need to develop a network of people and resources, something I tend to shy away from. I need to get out more and meet people. Then follow through on staying in touch. I should explore some professional groups to get started. Not sure how else to go about this.

• Self-confidence. Another dicey area. My ex-husband made sure to keep my self-confidence shaky with unending and always shifting demands on my time. Nothing was ever good enough for him. When I went to college later in life, I developed the most self-confidence I’ve ever had—hey! I’m smart and hard-working! I can do this!—only to see this fizzle a bit as I’ve been distracted with the SA BF. I need to get back to my academic interests. I am good at it and am motivated once I launch on a research project. I have one I want to pursue now—a paper on the changing perspective of American Indian museums and how money influences the educational displays thereof. I tend to put projects off when I feel overwhelmed, but once I get going I’m good for the duration. I need to jump-start this project next week, with the start of the spring semester. Beyond this, I need to somehow get over feeling physically inadequate compared to the BF’s obession with teen girls. That’s his obsession, not mine, but it’s a problem for me nonetheless. After a life spent feeling like, "At least I'm pretty, even if I don't have a degree and am a leeching stay-at-home mother," now I feel old. I mean, objectively speaking, I'm nice looking for my age, but I am having a hard time dealing with my age now since my D Day. *sigh*

• Decision-making. I routinely suffer analysis paralysis. I feel like if I just had a little more information I could make the best decision. This kept me in a bad marriage for over 20 years. It’s kept me in college an extra year. It’s keeping me from deciding what to do with the BF. Somehow I need to get better at this. Because even making no decision is making a default decision to maintain the status quo and that isn’t cutting it at this stage of my life. I’m not sure how to approach this quandary.

• Goal-setting. I can do this. I just need to concentrate on getting back to it. I resolve to getting back to making daily task lists and will make it a priority to make weekly, monthly and quarterly goals. They can always remain flexible, but as it is right now, I am spinning my wheels in too many areas.

• Family. This is good. My kids are happy and successful and I am very close to both of them. Big win.

• Creativity. This is tricky. I love being engaged in art projects, but once I embark on one they can consume much of my time and energy. Perhaps I should set aside time each month to visit art galleries or the like. Then I can spend a couple of hours getting energized by someone else’s work, then get back to my life.

• Compassion. I am very compassionate. Overly so for my own good. I can always see the other person’s perspective. When I visited the university’s counseling center in the fall, the counselor suggested that, after a lifetime raising happy, well-adjusted kids and putting my needs second, I center compassion on my needs first. This is hard. I am generally a “pleaser” personality type. I need a way to work on this. This requires more consideration from me.

• Tolerance. See above. I am very tolerant. Sometimes overly so. I have a hard time setting boundaries with others.

• Reason. Goes along with science. And logic. I like for things to make sense. This also, for me, accompanies compassion and tolerance. I am a reasonable person, which sometimes is a disadvantage when dealing with hurt or heartache. This is also why I am here and not doing the seemingly ubiquitous twelve step programs that seem to be floating around.

• Whimsy. What can I say? I love whimsy. Which is undoubtedly why I became a guerilla gardener a couple of years ago. I used to grow big pots of ferns or bromeliads at my house, then when they were nice looking, I’d deposit them after hours in front of local shops, to spruce up the community. I also have plans for some quickie art projects along the same lines. I abandoned my gardening when my life became so busy, but perhaps I can schedule some other kind of guerilla art action in the future. It brings me (and others) joy. I’ll have to work out a scheme for this bit of happiness.

• Education. I want to get my master’s degree, then eventually my Ph.D. Finances are killing me right now, though, in this economy. In the meantime, however, I can complete my small research project at the local university where I am now. Perhaps it will turn into something, who knows. I need to better at exploring options anyway.

• Community. I have been active in my community for many years now and have a certain local notoriety as the socialist who knows how to get shit done. I love helping others, putting the breaks on unwanted “development” (otherwise known as blight to me and neighbors impacted by dubious projects designed to make money for absentee owners while devaluing our neighborhood), and getting good stuff put in like community gardens and sidewalks. I’ve put some of my activities on hold over the last year or so. I need to find some other outlet for this drive. I miss it, but right now I feel like I am barely holding on to my life. We’ll have to wait and see about community action.

As for other areas I deem important:

• I need to figure out ways to direct my thoughts. Sometimes I feel so scattered I can barely concentrate to get anything accomplished.

• Procrastination. I put things off when I feel overwhelmed, which is often these days. I need a better way of dealing with stress. Perhaps when I feel stressed, I need to pick up something fun, but constructive to do—an art project/gallery visit, work in the garden, go for a walk, or some other physical activity.

Whew. I'm so glad I did this. What an enlightening exercise.


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 Post subject: Lesson Three
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:19 am 
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Posts: 133
Lesson Three

Almost immediately after we began dating he kept making comments about the desirability of young (teenage) women. This was a new one for me as I’ve spent most of my life turning men down. Men have definitely never admired other women in my presence. It was off-putting and I was never quite sure what to make of it. After I began questioning if he really wanted me or just felt like he couldn’t get anyone younger, the comments eventually stopped. He insisted I had it all wrong, but when he was arrested for pursuing a 14-year-old online, I knew I was right. They weren't just innocent comments.

I had a feeling prior to the arrest that he spent evenings online sometimes engaging in cybersex with god knows who. I found out later I was right.

When he had to tell me of his arrest he made vague statements about random women. I took it to mean he had had random sex with strangers he met online, even while we were together. I distinctly remember he said he pursued women who were emotional wrecks. When I asked how you identify a messed up personality online he said he looked for women who advertised themselves as “fat and lonely.” That those women were easy to get right away and would do the most for you. Later when I asked if he had had sex with “fat and desperate” women while we were together he said no. Just cybersex with them. I don’t believe it. I mean, the comments don't add up.

He insists he’s never cheated on any woman in any relationship he’s ever had. So the one and only time he was ever going to cheat he got arrested? I don’t believe that.

He insists with his new medications he’s dealing with stress much better, but I’ve no idea on that point. He’s facing jail time, but he’s handling this stress better than the earlier stresses that saw him crash and burn and get arrested for pursuing an underage girl? Why are his management skills better now when his situation is markedly worse?

I feel certain he’s still online at dating websites. He denied it yesterday, but I'm sure he was lying. He hesitated too long in his answer and his eyes darted to the side when he said "no."

I feel like he’s still looking online for random sex, but I can’t prove it.

I’m sure he still wants teen girls. Why wouldn't he? What were all those earlier comments about?

As for the rest, I can’t answer. It’s all too new and we don’t live together, so I have less exposure to his habits. I'm not sure what a trigger would be here.


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 Post subject: Lesson Four
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Posts: 133
My partner's values that I believe are an intrinsic part of his personality:

Generous
Caring
Supportive
Clever
Funny
Creative
Wonderful dad to his kid
Thoughtful
Energetic

The negative parts of his personality I think are driven in large part by his psychological issues:

Blame-shifting
Self-involved (Talks about himself and his ideas 90 miles an hour, and at length, before he'll ask how I am)
Impulsive
Procrastinator (I share this trait)
Self indulgent
Lack of self confidence (I share this one, too)

I think, through long term psycho-therapy, that the blaming others, self-involved, impulsive traits will diminish. If he can keep his insurance and be able to afford treatment long term. The procrastination may remain, but that's something that can be worked on. By me, too.

As he's been feeling better (seeing a therapist and on meds), though, a new trait has shown up: a harping on what I should have done about such and such. As he's been feeling better I'm hearing more and more what I should do, how I should handle things, and what I could have done differently. (And I'm not talking about in reference to our relationship, but about my professional/school life.) I've warned him not to start in on Monday morning quarterbacking. Anyway, it's quite irritating. And may persist.


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 Post subject: Kinda Random/Semi-Weekly Vision Update, How am I Doing?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Posts: 133
Values and traits I want to develop more fully are courage, strength, self-confidence, decision-making, and goal setting.

• Goal-setting. Hey, I’m getting started on that by embarking on that here now. Yay me. Today I dove into a freelance project, and got it all organized and looking good. It's not a project that usually is too terribly enjoyable, but it's so mind-numbing that it's rather therapeutic. I'm glad it's going well. Just a few hours left to do on it. Will finish this afternoon.

• Courage. Oh, I am bad at this one. It goes hand-in-hand with my lack of self-confidence. I want and need to show a little more strength and courage in my life. This will help me get to where I want to be professionally—doing something I love to do, with the resources to finally financially sever the ties with my ex-husband. I need to sit down and figure out how to make the most out of my professional resources, then reach out to people that can help. To this end I need to develop a network of people and resources, something I tend to shy away from. I need to get out more and meet people. Then follow through on staying in touch. I should explore some professional groups to get started. Not sure how else to go about this. Blerg. No progress on this one. Perhaps it will develop with success in other areas.

• Self-confidence. Another dicey area. My ex-husband made sure to keep my self-confidence shaky with unending and always shifting demands on my time. Nothing was ever good enough for him. When I went to college later in life, I developed the most self-confidence I’ve ever had—hey! I’m smart and hard-working! I can do this!—only to see this fizzle a bit as I’ve been distracted with the SA BF. I need to get back to my academic interests. I am good at it and am motivated once I launch on a research project. I have one I want to pursue now—a paper on the changing perspective of American Indian museums and how money influences the educational displays thereof. I tend to put projects off when I feel overwhelmed, but once I get going I’m good for the duration. I need to jump-start this project next week, with the start of the spring semester. Beyond this, I need to somehow get over feeling physically inadequate compared to the BF’s obession with teen girls. That’s his obsession, not mine, but it’s a problem for me nonetheless. After a life spent feeling like, "At least I'm pretty, even if I don't have a degree and am a leeching stay-at-home mother," now I feel old. I mean, objectively speaking, I'm nice looking for my age, but I am having a hard time dealing with my age now since my D Day. *sigh* See: Courage.

• Decision-making. I routinely suffer analysis paralysis. I feel like if I just had a little more information I could make the best decision. This kept me in a bad marriage for over 20 years. It’s kept me in college an extra year. It’s keeping me from deciding what to do with the BF. Somehow I need to get better at this. Because even making no decision is making a default decision to maintain the status quo and that isn’t cutting it at this stage of my life. I’m not sure how to approach this quandary. Only marginal, and I mean the most marginal of marginal improvement here. Still feel too unsure of myself to stake a position and move forward.

• Goal-setting. I can do this. I just need to concentrate on getting back to it. I resolve to getting back to making daily task lists and will make it a priority to make weekly, monthly and quarterly goals. They can always remain flexible, but as it is right now, I am spinning my wheels in too many areas. I am starting to make daily lists again. Need to do it everyday. My longer term lists and developing. I need to codify the little bits I scribble down in my notebook into one coherent plan.

• Family. This is good. My kids are happy and successful and I am very close to both of them. Big win. Saw the Younger Kiddo over the holidays. Yay! The older kiddo is fronting the license fees I need to start a home-based bakery business. (I am a separated broke-ass alternative college student trying to reinvent her life in a terrible economy in a hard hit state. Plus I'm older, which is never an advantage in trying to get a job. Anyway.) This business has gotten positive feedback from my few patrons. I will use Older Kiddo's investment to get into two markets around town.

• Creativity. This is tricky. I love being engaged in art projects, but once I embark on one they can consume much of my time and energy. Perhaps I should set aside time each month to visit art galleries or the like. Then I can spend a couple of hours getting energized by someone else’s work, then get back to my life. Forced myself to go with some art buddies to an opening Thursday night. I got in free with their passes. The sculptures on display weren't particularly good (the dilemmas of living in a culturally backward city), but it was nice not to feel like a hermit. And to see friends.

• Compassion. I am very compassionate. Overly so for my own good. I can always see the other person’s perspective. When I visited the university’s counseling center in the fall, the counselor suggested that, after a lifetime raising happy, well-adjusted kids and putting my needs second, I center compassion on my needs first. This is hard. I am generally a “pleaser” personality type. I need a way to work on this. This requires more consideration from me. I tried to communicate with my partner my unhappiness over the situation, but he pretty efficiently spun all of my concerns/complaints/worries away. I continue to feel at a disadvantage at pressing my thoughts to him. My ex-husband was also good at arguing (ok, he screamed and ranted a lot) my concerns away. :/

• Tolerance. See above. I am very tolerant. Sometimes overly so. I have a hard time setting boundaries with others. See: Compassion.

• Reason. Goes along with science. And logic. I like for things to make sense. This also, for me, accompanies compassion and tolerance. I am a reasonable person, which sometimes is a disadvantage when dealing with hurt or heartache. This is also why I am here and not doing the seemingly ubiquitous twelve step programs that seem to be floating around.

• Whimsy. What can I say? I love whimsy. Which is undoubtedly why I became a guerilla gardener a couple of years ago. I used to grow big pots of ferns or bromeliads at my house, then when they were nice looking, I’d deposit them after hours in front of local shops, to spruce up the community. I also have plans for some quickie art projects along the same lines. I abandoned my gardening when my life became so busy, but perhaps I can schedule some other kind of guerilla art action in the future. It brings me (and others) joy. I’ll have to work out a scheme for this bit of happiness. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

• Education. I want to get my master’s degree, then eventually my Ph.D. Finances are killing me right now, though, in this economy. In the meantime, however, I can complete my small research project at the local university where I am now. Perhaps it will turn into something, who knows. I need to better at exploring options anyway. I am so anxious about my education and the semester starts in two days. I feel like I can barely consider this. I think I will concentrate on something smaller--the American Indian project. Will start Sunday night.

• Community. I have been active in my community for many years now and have a certain local notoriety as the socialist who knows how to get shit done. I love helping others, putting the breaks on unwanted “development” (otherwise known as blight to me and neighbors impacted by dubious projects designed to make money for absentee owners while devaluing our neighborhood), and getting good stuff put in like community gardens and sidewalks. I’ve put some of my activities on hold over the last year or so. I need to find some other outlet for this drive. I miss it, but right now I feel like I am barely holding on to my life. We’ll have to wait and see about community action. Kinda stepped in this one. Responding to an old political ally on FB, I wondered if anyone in my city was working on Move to Amend, the loosely coordinated effort to build a movement to overturn Citizens United. She suggested a meeting, so I am meeting her next week. I'm really looking forward to it. I think it will give me a boost of confidence and self-esteem and again, it will be good not to be a hermit.

As for other areas I deem important:

• I need to figure out ways to direct my thoughts. Sometimes I feel so scattered I can barely concentrate to get anything accomplished. Last week was a bad week. I kept focusing on my partner's behavior that I know about and worrying about what I don't know about.

• Procrastination. I put things off when I feel overwhelmed, which is often these days. I need a better way of dealing with stress. Perhaps when I feel stressed, I need to pick up something fun, but constructive to do—an art project/gallery visit, work in the garden, go for a walk, or some other physical activity. Only the tiniest improvement here. My motivation to get my ass in gear at any given point is to remind myself I need financial independence. That usually spurs some sort of action on an immediate task. I need to get better at long range problem solving though.


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 Post subject: Stress
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Lesson Five.

How do I handle stress? In the short term, pretty well. I garden. Pruning or weeding are both terribly therapeutic to me. Petting my beloved geriatric cat is another stress reliever. Going for a walk is another one. I love being outdoors, always. Projects are another good stress reliever for me. As for alcohol, I usually have a glass of red wine a day, mostly as a distraction whenever I have to be in the kitchen. Being in the kitchen--cooking or cleaning--is soooo horrible, I need maximum distraction to make it tolerable. So, a glass of wine, a lit candle in the windowsill over the sink and "The Office" on Netflix, on my laptop sitting on the counter. Whew! Finally the dishes are done.

But. My skills for handling long term stress, which I feel like is where I live now, I am bad at. I left the H almost three years ago. I am almost 50, in a terrible economy, in a particularly bad part of the nation, finishing my degree (after years as a stay at home mom), and money has been tight all this time. I scramble for freelance all. the. time. I have no health insurance, it's a challenge to pay the mortgage every month (the house is crazy underwater), my car is over 20 years old (reliable, but for how long?), and my SO is doing I'm not sure what. For long term stress I have fewer skills and resources. I feel worn out and no end in sight.

I was an orphan who spent my teen years in foster care, so there's no family to rely on. Sometimes I resort to just shutting out the world. I don't answer the phone, hate opening emails, don't like going out. Which, of course, only exasperates problems. I can find myself cleaning the house like mad, to avoid just dealing with whatever I need to deal with. Laundry is the same way--I'll tackle this problem that I'm dreading just as soon as I do all the laundry. Ok, now all of the linens. Ok, just as soon as I wash all the floor rugs. Ok, just as soon as I do the shower curtain and liner, Ok, rinse and repeat. I am trying to use the relaxation techniques I got from the stress management center at my university. Remember to breathe, relax all of my muscles, visualize problems, then visualize them floating away so that I can concentrate on what's at hand. I need to practice the every day, not just at times when I am feeling stressed beyond all reason.

Rereading this, I am so not keeping up with the stress relievers. I am still either working like mad or goofing off on the internet rather than use constructive techniques to deal with my stress. Need to work on.

Compulsive behavior? I have a habit of twisting my hair repeatedly, when concentrating on something. I used to bite my nails, but stopped. I used to shake my right leg repeatedly, but stopped. I am a creature of habit, though. I am put off by changes to my routine. :/ For example, if I have to park in a different garage at school than usual, I feel off. Ditto driving a different way on a regular route. It distresses me just a little, enough to feel out of sorts. Enough that I notice and feel somewhat neurotic.

I still cannot think of a compulsive behavior that I have. My gigantic issue is dealing with stress through avoidance and procrastination. Not good.

If my partner couldn't act out sexually to deal with his stress, I could easily see him playing video games non-stop. Or painting non-stop. I don't think those things can give him the dopamine that sexual activity does, though. I hope with psychotherapy, though, that he will gain new resources to handle stress (which he has a lot of). I dunno. It's painful to think of my BF--he's dealing with all of this to stay out of jail and off the sex offender's list. What I don't see is a push to deal with his sexual behavior because he sees a problem with it. I don't think he does have a problem with it, just a desire not to get into more legal trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Frost's Healing Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:45 am 
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Lesson Six

Quite often, many sexual behaviors occur with such subtlety, such consistency and/or are so well disguised (through humor, anger, guilt, etc.) that it is not until you filter these behaviors through a net of sexual addiction when you realize that they are indeed woven from the same cloth. But the reality is, the majority of sexual addicts have positioned themselves within a cocoon of sexuality that is not related to their personality, but rather, their addiction. With this in mind, think of your partner's behavior over the course of your relationship. Describe the patterns that you suspect can be attributed to a sexualized mind.

Of the four areas discussed in this lesson, which have you observed in your partner?

Sexualized Mind: I don't really see this. I don't get much in the way of sexual innuendo--a little, but it's generally warranted and in good fun. He is perfectly capable, and likes, hand holding, shoulder rubs, etc, that don't lead to sex. He is sweet and affectionate in public, and so on.

Objectified Mind: This one is a major problem. I saw it before D Day, it made me suspicious, and it has engendered more than one disagreement between us.

He looks around (scans? I'm not sure) in public, without me realizing it. He's quite subtle. In fact, before D Day, he had to tell me he even did it--I never noticed. A little while after we started dating he asked me if I minded if he pointed out other women. My SO told me how his two other significant relationships had reacted to this--his ex-wife didn't mind, and in fact, often initiated the discussion; and his last major girlfriend hated it and forbid him from discussing attractive women with him.

Being a rational human being, who is aware that there are literally millions of women on the planet better looking than I am, I said sure, that's fine. Ha, what a mistake that was. Although it did provide insight into my BF. We are both in our forties and, for some reason, I thought the women he would pick would be, well, probably not in their fifties, but also probably no younger than their late twenties. What I fool I was! He always managed to pick out the youngest looking waitress in the place. Or the youngest looking barista. Or the youngest looking tour guide. When I began to question this, he very firmly informed me that if all you're considering is sex, then obviously you want the youngest woman possible. And he finds young women the most attractive, so that's who he pointed out. When I asked wouldn't it be better to have experience in bed, rather than inexperience, he agreed that experience does trump inexperience.

I think he's just fantasizing that these young girls will be soft and supple and amazed by his prowess, and somehow the sex will be amazing. I don't know. Grr. This part continues to anger me.

And you don't even want to get me started on the very young stripper he is friends with. (Married to a middle aged man we both know-- this man, "Michael," was this girl's history teacher in high school. They had a relationship when he was 33 and she was 17. He lost his career and now they are married and she supports them both by stripping at our area's biggest strip club. Nice.) Anyway, prior to D Day my BF made a couple of comments about how great she is (and she is, really) and how much in common he and this girl have. And he would have asked her out the first time he met her, but she was already married to "Michael." Seriously? She was 18 when he met her and, coincidentally enough, he and I met her the same night. I remember trying to figure out why she was at this party, as she seemed too young to have accompanied anyone there. Then I guessed that she was perhaps my BF's daughter's babysitter. She seemed cute and young and immature. Nope, she attended with her husband. My point is, she was way too young to have dated my BF at that time. He was 36. She was 18, and acted 16. But he likes her and would have gone out with her, if he could have. Umm, ok. Why? Because she is impossibly young and pretty and very flirtatious.

(Tangent--at one point prior to D Day my BF tried to address my suspicion that he wanted this stripper, "Lisa." No way would he ever have an affair with her. Why? Because he would never betray a friend that way. How could I think such a terrible thing of him? He takes his friendships seriously. And he does, actually. He has lifelong friendships with guys from high school. It was only after D Day that I realized he didn't say, "I would never betray you, my girlfriend.' No, it was, "I would never betray a friend by sleeping with his wife.")

:/

Then, of course, there is the porn. I asked him once, prior to D Day, if I could see his porn. I actually didn't really want to see it. It was one of those random comments you throw out to people. Kind of like your friend who's really into Led Zeppelin/Kittens/Whatever, and you say, "Hey, why don't you show me your Led Zeppelin scrapbook?" You don't mean it, but it seems kind of polite to ask. But his answer threw me off, and still does. He said I "wouldn't like it."

Now, here's the deal. I never used to have a problem with certain kinds of porn. I am not overly familiar with it, although my ex husband had a small amount of it. With my ex, I would occasionally run across it on his computer when I was searching for family photos or whatever. His porn stash was all free stuff from the web and generally fell into homemade, Playboy-type stuff. Pretty, girl-next-door-type women who seemed to be enjoying themselves. About a quarter of my ex's fell into the "erotic art" category--gorgeous, professional black and white photography of leggy, small breasted models, in beautiful locations. None of which I have an issue with. But my BF doesn't think I would like his? Now I'm thinking his stash is probably pretty hard core, and if it looks like the women aren't having a fun time, then I would definitely not like that. Plus, he has admitted to having a huge collection of porn.

So, yes, I think my boyfriend has an objectified mind.

All or Nothing Attitude. Yes, my SO has this, however, I believe it is a manifestation of a bipolar condition. His primary care physician and his psychologist believe he is bipolar, either one or two, I can't recall offhand. It's generally been agreed upon by his doctors that he concentrate on dealing with other things right now (legal, school, etc.) and explore the bipolar thing after his legal crisis is resolved.

At any rate, yes, he can swing from high to low and back again very quickly. And his downs are very down. As in, "I have the worst luck ever. Of anyone I know." Which isn't true, obviously, but when he's down, it's impossible to convince him otherwise. (And he has had some weird, terrible luck that I have personally witnessed. Like when the court lost all of his paperwork when he petitioned to get primary custody of his daughter after his ex-wife wrecked her car because of her DUI, lost her job, and became homeless. I mean, he did eventually win custody, but they lost all of the paperwork? And I was at court that day and heard it all for myself from the clerk, so yeah, he can have seriously strange bad luck.) On the other hand, he has good things happen to him, too, he just doesn't freely acknowledge it.

Instant Gratification. Yes, he has this, too. Actually, he has this in regards to finances. He is in college now--a second time, the first one aborted twenty years ago when his ADD was undiagnosed. So he sees the value of putting in effort now, for the prospect of returns later. The same with his daughter. He very much puts her needs first, in the knowledge that this will be good for her in the long run. As to finances, he spends a little too freely for my comfort level, knowing how poor he is. (An unemployed college student.)

On the other hand, I know when he did work full time he had a savings account and was generally on top of finances. I think his carefree attitude with money now reflects the stresses of his life. He has to say no to many things, so if he can spend a bit here and there on frivolous things, it makes him feel a bit happier. (It reminds me of the study on willpower that I read in the NYT last year. That basically willpower is a finite resource. And poor people have no more of it than wealthier people. So, in essence, poor people are so shot by saying no and doing without, that they don't always have the willpower at the end of the day to continue to make the best decisions. Often this means finances. I really think this might be the case here.

At any rate, he is generous with me, to a fault.


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 Post subject: Re: Frost's Healing Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:29 am 
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Posts: 133
Lesson Seven

A. Consider the role that you have played in your partner's recovery to date. In the field below, describe these roles as they relate to:

I. Effective communication

II. Managing your partner's recovery

III. Empowering/disempowering a pursuit of health

B. Consider the focus and attention that has been offered to your partner in recovery; are you gaining equal resource to heal your own wounds? If not, what can you do to ensure that your healing is considered every bit as important as your partner's recovery?

Communication. I find my BF much easier to talk to than my ex-husband. He is unfailing supportive and non-judgmental. When it comes to his SA behavior, however, I find we are stuck in a yep, everything's under control mode. Don't worry. So, rather than push, I let things go, in an attempt at being supportive and soothing, while my SO deals with the ongoing stresses of his life. I decided months ago to place things in a holding pattern while his physical/mental health got evaluated and just try to offer love and support.

I feel like I'm in a cheerleader role now. For example, he has struggled with schoolwork due to ADD. Any success on this front is greeted with cheering on my part. You went to the math lab and got through your stats homework? Yay! Fantastic! And I mean these things, too. He is so lacking in self-confidence, I feel it's important to acknowledge achievements, one at a time. Further, when he is feeling particularly low, I try to offer a sunnier vision of the future; that there is a way forward to a better life. Generally I'm an optimist and so this message is one that I truly believe.

On the other hand, anything having to do with his acting out is frozen--fixed where it was when he was arrested. And I am seeing suspicious signs of fresh acting out. I am uncertain how to handle this. Bring it up? It will get dismissed as nothing but paranoia on my part. Sit on it? The BF has asked that I not bottle things up, that I just talk to him so that we can clear the air and he can address any concerns on my part. But he is good at waving my concerns away. Ugh. What to do?

Managing my partner's recovery. Almost nothing here. I instinctively decided early on not to drive this, as I reasoned it would only be for show (for me) if I insisted on something. When it comes to recovery, my input is limited to my suggesting, from time to time, that he find a therapist or a self help group for his own stress management. I am convinced he would be a happier person, and would get farther with his life, if he had someone else to talk to. Because he does not discuss his compulsive sexual behaviors with me and I know more about them than anyone. At any rate, any suggestion that he find a support group is met with push back--I'm too stressed, I don't have time, I can't spend any more time away from my daughter who needs me, etc. When I suggest that he would be a better father, and less stressed overall in life, if he had an outlet to discuss these things, I get the metaphorical hand-wave dismissal. It's a nonstarter.

Empowering a pursuit of health. He, and by extension, me, are focused on his legal status right now. School is also of critical importance right now and he is stressed on that front. I guess what I'm saying is, I see no focus on changing behavior right now. Though when the house is burning down, I suppose you just grab a bucket and put off putting that sprinkler system in until later.

(I'm pretty sure now this relationship will end sooner rather than later. I do love him, and he is good to me, but I see suspicious signs and I feel like some of these other birds I think he is pursuing (but have almost no proof of!) should have to deal with his bullshit, not me.)

B. Focus and attention on me during this crisis. Are you kidding me? It is limited to my involvement here at RN, and thank the maker for this place, it has proven invaluable to me during this confusing time. At any rate, I tried going to the university counseling center about this, but the counselor seemed so shocked when I began to explain this situation that I dropped the subject. As for my BF, his support has largely involved what I consider rolling over and playing dead. That is, I get the, yes, I know I hurt you, I am so sorry, no it will never happen again, I would never do anything more to risk losing you, you have every right to be upset, etc. It's very disarming. Very effective for him. Although I wouldn't be any happier if he suggested I had no right to be upset by all this, so I'm not sure what kind of reaction from him would satisfy me.


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 Post subject: Re: Frost's Healing Thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Partner's Coach (Admin)

Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 4641
Quote:
Goal-setting. Hey, I’m getting started on that by embarking on that here now. Yay me.
:g:

Quote:
Courage....Not sure how else to go about this.
When you look at this goal as one broad area to master, it can seem overwhelming (which would lead you to not know how to go about it). Taking it one step at a time is a great way. Exploring professional groups is a good idea. Putting yourself out there, incrementally, will have you learn that these things are not as scary as they seem. You just need to affirm yourself each time you do step outside your comfort zone and pat yourself on the back! This will help you create a positive history with yourself and courage. And each time you do something courageous, it will become less and less of a challenge. I would suggest starting small. Even just saying hi to someone you know in passing (ie. someone you see regularly, but have never ventured a conversation with). This can be a great confidence builder, as you will come to know yourself as someone others are happy to get to know. It will also help to stay knowledgable/current in the domain of your profession. Read journal articles, professional magazines, take a course that will enhance the skills you already possess. I would recommend an in class course, vs. online, as that will further expand your network of real-life contacts. And, the best part is that in doing all of these kinds of things, you are living into the vision that you have created for yourself!

Quote:
Because even making no decision is making a default decision to maintain the status quo and that isn’t cutting it at this stage of my life. I’m not sure how to approach this quandary.
Exactly. Give yourself the course of this workshop before making any life-altering choices. Then, you will be vision oriented and your decisions will flow from your values, and you will not have to second guess yourself (unless you have not committed fully to your vision, that is, which would likely be due to incongruence between your vision and you).

Quote:
He insists with his new medications he’s dealing with stress much better, but I’ve no idea on that point.
He likely is dealing with stress much better--or rather, the medication is dealing with the stress. The thing is, in the long term, medication is not necessarily the best solution in and of itself. He will have to do participatory work to learn how to manage his life effectively. Medication is useful to help regulate emotions to the point that the individual can actually focus on doing real work but, the flipside is that the individual can also come to relate their success to the medication, thus becoming dependent (psychologically, and sometimes physiologically) on it such that when medication is stopped, they relapse. Ideally, his doctor would be taking a holistic approach, combining medication with cognitive and behavioral therapies.

Good to see you putting your vision to work! :g:

Quote:
I still cannot think of a compulsive behavior that I have. My gigantic issue is dealing with stress through avoidance and procrastination. Not good.
Even though it may seem counter-intuitive, use avoidance and procrastination for the purpose of the exercise, as it is possible that they are actually compulsive nature.

Quote:
It's painful to think of my BF--he's dealing with all of this to stay out of jail and off the sex offender's list.
Sadly, with these kinds of consequences being the motivating factors in his recovery, the prognosis for true recovery (making the transition to health based living) is not good. Unless he connects to recovery for it’s own sake, because he connects to a deeper meaning and purpose for his life and is able to commit to it fully, such that he is willing to do the work and endure the growing pains of recovery, his efforts will likely only be as needed to get through this crisis.

Quote:
Sexualized Mind: I don't really see this....
Consider that the comments about young people that you mentioned earlier are indicators of his sexualized mind. Also consider that a sexualized mind is a specific kind of objectified mind (objectifying in a sexual context, vs. simply treating others as props or objects).

Quote:
But my BF doesn't think I would like his? Now I'm thinking his stash is probably pretty hard core, and if it looks like the women aren't having a fun time, then I would definitely not like that. Plus, he has admitted to having a huge collection of porn.
This is possible. But it could also be because an addict most often has compartmentalized their worlds, and “never the twain shall meet”. In other words, an addict will often keep their “social” self (the one he presents to you-the sweet, hand holding, back rubbing, all around really great partner) and the “secret” self (the addict). This has more to do with his relationship to himself, and how he believes others will perceive him if they knew of his addiction.

Quote:
I find my BF much easier to talk to than my ex-husband. He is unfailing supportive and non-judgmental.
As you work through your workshop, I suggest that you to not compare your BF to your ex, and only consider your relationship to him as it filters through your vision and values.

Good work, Frost.

Be well.

_________________
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)


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 Post subject: Re: Frost's Healing Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Posts: 133
Hi CoachMel. Thanks for the insights and response.

Quote:
Ideally, his doctor would be taking a holistic approach, combining medication with cognitive and behavioral therapies.


Yes, this is exactly what his psychologist recommended. Without getting into a long story, his psychological results fall in a mid-range, meaning low enough that he doesn't need a pharmacological approach the entire time, and high enough that he probably needs some medications when dealing with high stress situations. At any event, long term psychotherapy has been proscribed by two different doctors.

Quote:
use avoidance and procrastination for the purpose of the exercise


Yeah, I feel better about how work has been going, so I am busy now. I literally cannot afford to waste any time on procrastination. On the plus side it means I have found some success in work; on the minus, I have very little relaxation time. I am trying to schedule it, like one would an appointment. It seems to be working. I went to a gallery opening with friends last week and work out in the gym three mornings a week.

Quote:
with these kinds of consequences being the motivating factors in his recovery, the prognosis for true recovery (making the transition to health based living) is not good.


A major concern of mine.

A few weeks before Christmas I had a mini-meltdown. I visited his daughter's facebook page to check her new hair color. She is 14 and just a great girl--witty, creative, opinionated. I like her quite a bit. Anyway, as I rifled through her album, to see her new auburn hair, I realized I was looking at a girl (and her friends, too) the same age as the "girl" my BF tried to have sex with: 14. When I told him I didn't see "the sexiest creatures on the planet," and, btw, are you attracted to any of her friends?--I got the standard no. The photo the detective sent him was an computer-altered image of a young, female policewoman and they "made her out to be a combination of Miley Cyrus and teen Brittany Spears." And, no, it is not abnormal for men to find that attractive and I have issues of my own with getting older. Okaaaay. The part about my having issues with getting older is twofold: one, yes, I have noticed that society would really like women over the age of 40 to please just go hide in an attic until death and, two, this insecurity was increased exponentially with the constant drumbeat of, "youth is hot."

What I did not get out of this conversation was anything along the lines of, well, that this sort of desire is unhealthy and something he'd like to get over. Just, this is normal. It's hot-wired. So long as I go home with you, what's the problem? Umm, because if you had the opportunity to go home with the 19-year-old hottie, you would?

So, yeah. I haven't let this issue go yet. I am just trying to get over this legal hump, then proceed.

Quote:
Consider that the comments about young people that you mentioned earlier are indicators of his sexualized mind


I guess I am confused on this terminology, then. I took that to be a part of objectification. But, yes, it's also sexual, too. They seem to go hand-in-hand. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is.

Anyway, thanks again, so much. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Frost's Healing Thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Posts: 133
Lesson Eight. My SO's recovery path.

Well, he isn't really on one. The big focus has been on proving he's: not a dangerous pervert and instead has major psychological issues. (Which, in all fairness, he tried to warn me about early on. Honestly, when the nice, smart, creative guy warns you he's "crazy," and possibly a "sociopath," do you believe him? I thought he was kidding around and just meant issues, which we all have.)

Anyway, I have included the things that I see with my own eyes. Lots of this stuff I don't see, as he doesn't freely share the bad stuff and I don't pry.

They often feel forced into recovery--legal consequences.
Their motivation for recovery comes from an attempt to appease others--I walked out, then adopted a wait and see stance.
They minimize their behavior--yes, I shouldn't have done it, I've ruined everything, but noticing attractive young women is perfectly normal, and don't the police have real criminals to catch?
They actively prepare their environment for successful acting out by--he doesn't need to do this. His time is his own and he has many hours everyday when he can do whatever he wants without accountability to anyone.
They believe that they are uniquely defective and/or damaged--I've heard the "damaged" word a few times. The other word is "broken."
They believe that they have suffered so many consequences from their compulsive behavior, that it will be impossible for them to reach their lifetime goals--yes.
They believe that what they are experiencing is their fate--he certainly feels ruined by a lifetime of poor healthcare.
They are inflexible in re-evaluating their lifetime goals--no, I see him actively pursuing a career path through college and this began well before his legal trouble.

Partner's tend to experience these individuals across the entire emotional scale. He is horribly embarrassed by this. Also--I get a fair amount of, "I don't deserve you, you're out of my league, why are you here, you deserve better, you're a saint to put up with me."

Those Who Will Occasionally Struggle with Relapse

They believe that they are defective in the sense that their emotions, urges, impulses, etc. are experienced with much more intensity than "normal people". And this puts them at a disadvantage for living a "normal life." -- yes.
They tend to confuse addiction recovery with general mental health issues--creating a hypersensitivity to all of the emotions that they experience. Depression, anxiety, anger--they are all tightly related to "recovery" and an imbalance in one often leads to an imbalance in the other. YES!
They tend to see life in episodes--with beginnings and endings--rather than as a process. Also yes.
They consistently measure the success of their recovery through abstinence, rather than emotional stability and personal satisfaction.
They often experience extreme emotions in relation to acting out--extreme guilt, extreme shame, depression, anger, hatred. Or, they experience very mild emotions--when it has become a pattern that they have resolved to accept as a part of their lives. He has told me he feels very guilty, most of the time. He actually shared this feeling with me before I knew anything was really wrong.
They tend to hyper analyze their actions, thoughts and feelings. He hyper-analyzes everything under the sun.

Partner's tend to experience these individuals as exhausting. Capable of achieving anything they set their minds to...though unsure of what it is they will eventually settle their minds on. Yes, he is funny, creative, maddening, generous and exhausting.

He is very high needs, always.


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 Post subject: Exercise Nine
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Exercise Nine

A. What are the key signs that you have observed in your partner that lead you to believe that he/she is engaged in a healthy recovery?

A few?

1. He is seeing a psychologist next week, but this is a matter of sooner or later as he will be required by the court to enter treatment as part of a plea agreement. I suppose this should fall under the not engaged category.
2. Before Christmas we had a brief talk about everything and he explained that if a woman "threw herself" at him, he would sleep with her. I hoped my patient and understanding attitude at this admission would foster more openness, but nope. Not really.
3. The last psychologist he saw did an assessment on him and my BF invited me along to hear the results directly from the psychologist. The doctor was upset at my BF's insistence that I be there, but I stayed at his behest, though I offered to leave the room. I was able to hear the professional diagnosis for myself. It was my BF's attempt at proving his state of mind to me.
4. He shared the results of the psychosexual evaluation with me, unvarnished.

B. What are the key signs that you have observed in your partner that lead you to believe that he/she is NOT engaged in a healthy recovery?

1. See above.
2. Furthermore, he never shares any information on his sexual struggles. I know he's under a lot of stress so I assume he is still masturbating to porn to help sooth this. I mean, he doesn't tell me he's not doing this.
3. I have no idea if he's still on dating websites. He doesn't offer any insights into this and, unfortunately, I know from experience if I simply ask him about, I'll get the no, no, no, absolutely not, answer. No matter how calmly and nicely I ask.
4. If I hear one more time about how much he has in common with the young stripper "Lisa," I will go ballistic. I don't hear it very much, but I've heard it enough that I am super sensitive about it. And she came up in conversation a couple of weeks ago and this comment was made again. Hopefully her husband and I will both die of old age soon so he can date this young lady. Bitter? Table of one. Bitter--table of one . . .
5. Is he still pursuing cyber sex with random women/men pretending to be women online? Who knows? Not me.
6. Teen girls are just flat out the most attractive creatures on the planet, objectively speaking, and I need to get over my hyper-sensitivity on this score. This is not a psychiatric disorder, he's just being honest, and he loves me and has the most in common with me and blahblahblah. I really don't want to be the thought police, but I continue to find this attitude icky. And unfair.

C. How have you communicated your observations to your partner? Have you communicated the healthy observations as well as the unhealthy? How has your partner responded?

We are stuck in a don't talk about it rut. I have given up trying to talk to him about any of this as I get a, "I'm doing much better. I have just looked at a little porn (which, honestly, I don't care about much--depending on the nature of said porn), but nothing else. I swear." :\

What's the point of trying to discuss something that your SO is determined to not talk about? Why bother? I'm just in wait until the plea agreement is signed before making any decision about anything. I'm thinking at some point after that I will ask to have a counseling session with his regular psychologist. I need more than what's happening right now. I just keep waiting for some sign that he's pursuing another woman. And the rest of the time I try to offer love and support so that he can succeed in school and get a decent arrangement with the court. I try to be encouraging. I try to be a cheerleader for any successes. It is exhausting.


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 Post subject: Lesson Ten
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:21 am 
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Exercise Ten
Return to your vision created in Stage One; Lesson Two. Select the three most important values that you need right now to help you stabilize your life.

Education.
Goal Setting.
Self Confidence.

B) For each, think about the meaning and fulfillment you are getting compared to the potential meaning and fulfillment available.

Education. I love education. I love learning new things, going to class, participating in discussions, broadening my horizons, having intellectually stimulating conversations with others on "big picture" subjects, research, and writing. It fills me with confidence to be so good at these things. It's the perfect fit. Something I love with something that I'm good at that in turns bolsters a feeling of accomplishment. Right now I'm going to my classes and trying to juggle every other blasted thing in my life. I need to get going on an outside research project, which I believe will help further my education goals while also giving me a greater sense of self worth. One of the professors who is an American Indian specialist has offered to help me with this. I need to take advantage of his offer.

Goal Setting. I've actually been better at this. But I don't do it every day. And I'm not doing mid and long range goal setting. Taking a wider view will help get me to where I want to be one year from now. Three years from now. Ten years from now.

Self Confidence. I couldn't decide between Courage and Self Confidence here, then decided that they are closely intertwined. Self Confidence will help give me Courage. I am getting better at this one, too, slowly. I have started a side business to help me through these lean economic times and have gotten positive feedback from new customers. This is a real confidence booster. Hey! I can do this! By myself! I could do a better job, though, of pushing myself a little bit further out of my comfort zone. I think for this one, I will work on work, as it will engender further benefits.

C) Develop a specific plan that will allow you to maximize the potential in each of those three values.

Education. Resurrect my idea for the research project. Begin to expand on the work I've already started and finish the project by the end of the spring semester, then submit to the student research journal.
Goal Setting. I tend to react to the need of the moment. I need to set aside time on a regular basis to evaluate my life and where I want to be. I know it sounds crazy, but I really don't know where that is long term. (I get great satisfaction out of many things. What do I want my professional life to concentrate on and what can I realistically do at this stage of my life? I'm really not sure.) So, every Friday morning I will set aside twenty minutes to merely meditate on the future and what I want out of it. Then I will review my goals--short, mid, and long term--to ensure that they are designed to guide me to that future.
Self Confidence. Wow, this is a tricky "value" to try to plan for. I think I will concentrate on some aspect of my work to foster, particularly anything that forces me to interact with people. I am an introvert by nature, so I think by getting out and connecting with people in a professional capacity will help build some self confidence. So for this I will pinpoint people to contact about my business, put together an information/sample kit, then venture forth with same.

D) List the steps you will take in the next 24 hours to begin strengthening each value.

Education. Tonight before bed I will reread my original class project, then identify holes that need to be filled with research.
Goal Setting. Meditate tomorrow morning after class on where I want to be one year from now. Then I will build short, mid and long range goals to give me a road map on how to get there.
Self Confidence. Tonight after dinner I will identify people I want to reach out to, then outline the sample pack I will build to deliver to these people.


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