Recovery Nation

I am very sad tonight. I had been doing well since September but I slipped up on Friday and confessed to my wife this afternoon. She is so hurt again. How can I do this to her? To myself? How can I go against my values like that? Why don't I get up and walk away?
How can I say "no" to the trigger 99 times and then out of the blue something pops up and I just go forward without even stopping to think about what I am doing?

In the moment when I "click" on the forbidden it all seems to happen so quickly and then before I know it I've clicked again and then again. I told my wife it feels like I am in a trance. But she says that is just an excuse on my part. And maybe she is right.

It must bring me some kind of stimulus for me to do it, but I just feel so bad and I think: How could I have done what I said I would never do again and how can I hurt the one I love this way?

I want so much to be free. I see once again that I cannot do this on my own. I fear that in a few weeks or months I'm doomed to act out again, if only for a few seconds. I want to believe that I will change for good but yet here I am falling again.

I need to find answers. I need to find lasting change.

What can I do to stop myself in the split second between seeing the trigger and then clicking the mouse?
Is it just a matter of constant vigilance and being prepared for the unexpected? When I do that everything works well.
But what about the day when I forget to be prepared and it catches me by surprise?

Hi Witness
first reflect upon exactly how you feel right now
take it in and really feel
then compare it to how you felt when you did resist
which feels the best my friend?

what did you get out of acting out?
only pain and negativity, guilt and shame
learn from it
yes urges can be trance like but that is why we have our action plans

firstly what caused the urge, boredom , complacency anger, frustration I suggest it could have been anything but that anything was not real, it existed only in your head

dont be too hard on yourself but do learn from the experience and dont let the addiction play with your mind
you dont need to watch porn but you chose to - why?

I have a rule that if I dont have a definite healthy reason for being on the computer I log off
try it
My action plans are simple
I have an urge I step back into reality, away from fantasy land
stand up make a cuppa, switch on the tv, go for a walk anything that is real

OK my friend get back on the horse and remember who that "little only one last look" is hurting
You my friend, so you need to help yourself, recognising that is a step in the right direction, keep walking

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
stay healthy keep safe
Kenzo

Witness:

I hope you're feeling better today

I couldn't help but notice that you posted a response on one of my posts just shortly before you wrote this one. You offered to let me know about some book titles that might help me with my wife. That says a lot. That you took time to think about someone else when you were hurting. I don't know if I would have done that. That speaks to your character. Remember that.

_________________
Your story may not have such a happy beginning but that doesn't make you who you are. It is the rest of your story...who you chose to be....

Recovery is ugly. The fact of the matter is that your relationship might not be strong enough to survive it. But you know that it will not survive it you continue in your addiction so at least recovery gives your relationship a fighting chance.

If you are not working with a therapist that specializes in sexual addiction, I strongly suggest you find one. A religious leader or even a marriage counselled is simple not equipped to handle this sort of addiction. If you then have a slip, you and your partner can discuss it with this therapist who is trained to handle these things. Don't try to do this on your own, it did not work in the past and it never will.

And remember, even if you have a slip or even a relapse, you cannot unlearn all the recovery knowledge that you learned. Just as you cannot change the past of your addiction, you cannot change the past of your recovery work. Its there and you own it.

Press through.

My thanks to all three of you for reaching out to me!

What makes me feel bad is that I have gone for a couple of years without having these slips but then a year ago I began to let them happen. I came back to RN to try and find some answers. And I don't know how well I'm doing in that regard.

My problem with my action plan SEEMS to be that it all happens so quickly. There is just a split second between seeing the trigger and "clicking". Most days I see triggers and just go on as if they were not there. But then there comes the day when I don't resist and I have not been able to pinpoint why.

I believe that boredom and complacency play a part. And I may be wrong but it seems I get more excitement or stimulus from just the fact of finding out what is there than anything sexual or arousing. It seems it is more curiosity or doing the forbidden.

Of course when I tell my wife it was curiosity she says you mean you don't know what a naked woman looks like. But what I mean is I don't know what there is on that particular site.

But that is kind of taking me off subject.

Why do I see something and go for weeks or months with no problems? And then see something else and click and click and click again before I come to my senses and say what am I doing here and get off?

It all seems to happen so quickly and automatically. And I know that that is an excuse.
So now I need to figure out HOW to deal with these situations in the future.
Perhaps how can I slow the process down so that I will THINK before acting? How to look at my values before the "auto pilot" kicks in?

I appreciate any help any of you can offer!!!!

I really don't know what to do here at RN these days. I decided to go back to lesson 17 as it was mentioned in lesson 64.

What has been the root of my problem with slips?
From the things I saw on the wheel the one that seemed to best describe me is accomplishment. Just clicking to see what is there. I have sometimes said this is "curiosity".

Whatever good feelings I get from clicking fade away quickly. I don't think these feelings are sexual yet it is pictures of naked women that I was looking at. That part still puzzles me. Why do I do it?
Why did I do it that particular time when I have chosen NOT to do it a 100 times before that day?

I'm still trying to understand myself. I'd appreciate feedback from any and every body!

Hi Witness


I suggest that you do know what to do, stay here and keep working on it
there is nothing wrong and going back to re visit areas that are confusing or misunderstood
make those weak areas strong




of course it is sexual
why do we scan and those victims are dressed
we do it because it is compulsive and we give in to the addict within ourselves, we make excuses (like I don't think it is sexual)
throw the excuse card away and don't believe that "one more time wont harm me and it will be the last"

learn from your slips and use that knowledge to prevent them , you said you don't know what to do I suggest re visit your action plans and put them into action



sorry but if you got to lesson 64 it is because you choose to do it, you need to ask why do you choose to


remember the reason the trigger the hook only exists in your mind and only because you allow it to




peel back the layers and don't deny anything that you uncover
I used a jotter and spent hours opening my self, not liking what I discovered but not hiding it away or hiding from it, it is painful but very much worth it and IMHO recovery cannot truly succeed and be complete without it, remember the programme is more than recovery, it is a life changing management vehicle

_________________
Remember recovery is more than abstinence
Every transition begins with an ending
stay healthy keep safe
Kenzo

I think Kenzo has touched on a specific point that you will want to consider, particularly from what you say here:



Just from reading this, I can tell that there are major concepts in the workshop that are not clicking for you in a practical sense, particularly surrounding emotional understanding and decision making. Either that, or there is a part of you holding on to your addiction (or from another perspective, a part of you that still believes that you are defective and can't permanently end your addiction, thus leaving the door open to fall back on addiction if need be.) There really aren't any other options.

If you can afford it, you may want to consider the professional coaching option at this point, as that may help give you more detailed personal feedback to help you put the pieces together.

Boundless

_________________
"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell."

"Be a lamp unto yourself."

- Buddha

Well I asked for feedback. Thank you! But not exactly what I wanted to hear. Probably what I need to hear. My wife would certainly agree with you guys.

I am responsible. There are no excuses. I must take responsibility, i.e. FULL responsibility.

And I agree that it seems like after having been through RN twice now that I should have a better understanding of what happens to me OR should I say what I choose to do.

The need to peel back the layers and dig deeper into my emotions and motives is essential. Yet something that I have not seemed to be able to do. Do I not want to? Am I just making excuses?
What are the things I need to see regarding myself that I am not going to like?
Who am I?
What am I trying to hide from others and even to hide from myself?
What is there within me that is holding me back?
What do I need to let go of?

I don't want to make excuses and see that it is detrimental. In the past I often used the excuse of "just one more time and this will be the last". But that does not seem to have been the case in my slips over the past year.

I hope I can communicate this well. It seems like or feels like recent slips have appeared in a flash, really out of the blue. And it seems like I don't really have time to think before I'm already in the middle of it.
It doesn't last long and I don't dwell on the images after the fact but yet I chose to click. And that is the part that is eluding me.
If I stop and think about it, it is easy. Of course following my values is better. Of course I should follow my action plan.

But what do I do when it all happens within a couple of seconds?
How can I slow the process down?
How can I wake up soon enough to avoid plunging ahead without thinking?

Kenzo said the "hook" only exists in my mind. And asked: "Why do I allow it to be there?"
This may be a key.
There is no "hook" in my mind wanting to smoke a cigarette. Why do I allow the thought of looking at a picture draw me in?
How can I remove this hook?
Why have I not totally removed it?
I know I am much different than I was 5 years ago. But how did I stay away from this for three years and then last year I allowed these "slips" to happen from time to time?
I still ask how do I not let the trigger be a trigger 100 times and then bite the hook the next time?
I just thought of one answer. Sometimes the hook looks different or appears in a different place.
I find it easy to resist the old hook that I expect and have seen before. But the hook I see for the first time that catches me off guard is where I have been having trouble.
So what do I need to do to expect the unexpected and to remember that it is the very same hook as before just with a different color or design?

I hope that some of you guys will reply.
You have already helped me.
Thank you!

Q: How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
A: Practice, man, practice.


This is all answered by your vision. When you've spent the time working on your vision, and being honest (with yourself) about your vision and WHO you want to be in life, it becomes a part of you. It isn't natural at first; It takes time to connect with this vision you've created. If it's just words on paper written from what you think other people expect of you, it will never become ingrained. I think of it like this: Jon described the Core of a person. Inside the deepest layers, There is a "you" that's really "YOU". But, through the experiences of life, the "YOU" becomes buried under layers and layers of "life". The answer is to spend the time unpeeling the layers and trying to get down to the "YOU" that's really "YOU". This is an abstract concept and it's difficult for me to convey this in words. Let me know if any of this rings true in your recovery.


Not true. Doesn't happen that way. Look back in time before the couple of seconds.


Awareness.


Practice.


You're right, AND she's right. You are in a trance, and it is just an excuse. Your job is to practice awareness until it becomes natural.


Work in nanoseconds, if you have to.


Yes. Eventually, it becomes second-nature, and you don't have to work so hard at it. But, for now, work your a$$ off.


Become more aware. Work harder than your addiction works.

Hi witness and I too hope you're feeling better about all of this.

You've received some great responses from all here and hope you can apply some of it.

All I can add is that, from what you have written, you are having a difficult time in understanding what you look at when you seek out porn 'imagery'. The reason I highlighted the word 'imagery' is to get at the definition of the word itself and how we use it as a description in the English language. The root start's with image which get's expanded to what we call imagination. And (in the case of porn), like a painting, one can be either moved by it or can be completely uninfluenced by it.

Personally speaking, it wasn't until I understood that it was my 'imagination' and not the 'imagery' which needed to be adjusted.

Hoping the best for your recovery!

Ah Witness my friend

We have all been there - been here with you. I empathise and sympathise. Now move on!!!!

This question caught my eye.



It is because, crudely, each time we sit down in front of the computer (if that is your poison, as it is mine) we bring the emotions, the feelings, the state of mind of that day, that second. It will be different each time.

So you may be managing your emotions 87 times, but the 88th you are not ready. You are not aware. Either something has slipped in your outlook - you have got complacent? Or there are holes in your recovery.

It is not the slip itself that is the problem, then, but the attitude that it reveals.

There is some short term response. Asking the kind of questions you have - why has this happened? But make sure to listen carefully to what you hear, not just from us but in your own mind and heart?

What has been happening? You choose to look at porn - it doesnt just happen? Explain it to yourself. Then take a deep breath and plan out what to do next.

First, to calm down. Put this in perspective and plan a measured response - both short term and long term.

This should include your wife - you must answer questions as honestly with her as with yourself. There is no point in ducking them. If you are honest now, this slip can act as a lesson for the future - a warning, a reminder and even an inspiration.

I remember well my relapses of this time last year. I lied about them and it took months for them to come to light. So far they have driven me on - to dig the foundations of a deeper recovery ythan before.

I am trying to change things not only around porn, but everywhere in my life. My new watchword is sustainability i - I am cutting what I dont need, what saps myenergy, or distracts me unduly, and concentrating on the values. Boundaries, values and action plans.

I know you can do the same. but be calm. take responsiblity and move on.

Take care

Shaw

I was kind of disappointed the other day when I had not received much feedback. My THANKS!!! to you guys for taking the time to reply.

I'll reply to each one of you separately.

Tim,

I have seen that awareness and practice are essential. And I thought I had been doing that and in part I had. I had many good months and even a couple of good years. But somehow I left a window open and that is how the "slips" slipped in.

I appreciate what Kenzo said to me about taking responsibility for allowing the hook to hook me. And you have said the same thing that I have allowed myself to make excuses for my actions.

Of course now it is easy to be aware -- I just have to practice and make this a habit that will last next month and next year.

I remember my band teacher in Jr. High saying that practice does not make perfect -- only perfect practice makes perfect. I need to keep learning from my mistakes and perfecting this.

I have come to see after thinking about this the past week that somehow I was doing fine with the triggers that I was used to - like the swimsuit photos on SI. But then when I was in the middle of my work and searching for something on Google and saw a new link that I had never seen before I allowed myself to be "curious" and go see what was there. Why?
I already knew it wasn't good. I knew it should be "off limits" but I still would click "just to see" and that cannot be permitted.

And back to the "onion" idea it appears that I need to go back and look at my vision again. I thought I had that down. But there are still questions that I don't have answers for.

Thanks again, Tim!!!

Jim, thanks for dropping by.

I confess I did not understand what you were trying to say about images and imagination.

I see any kind of lusting as wrong. Yet I have to admit that I have left the door open for "being curious". When I know there is something harmful or that there even might be something harmful I need to put into my action plan that it is time to move back and stay away.

There is nothing to gain by "taking a peek". And much to lose.

Shaw,

I'm certain that complacency has been part of the problem. But I don't think that fully explains it.
Yet I didn't think I was having trouble with my emotions. It is not that I was upset with someone nor feeling sorry for myself. It has happened on normal, everyday days.
I have noticed that it tends to happen more on days when I'm not so busy. So I need to be especially ready and alert when I have extra time on my hands.

And I MUST admit to myself and to others that this does NOT happen to me -- it is a choice that I make. It comes easily as a result of past habits yet it is still MY CHOICE and I have to take the blame. Otherwise there is no hope for change!


I like this idea and have felt this way the past couple of days. I want my last slip to be my final slip and my inspiration to be ready at all times and move on to a better life for me and my wife.


Shaw, I too am looking for sustainability. I don't want to ever have to tell my wife again that I slipped. I told her I would tell her and I did tell her but it was hard for me. And I think even harder for her.
When I slip all of the past comes flooding down and tears her up. My infidelity through porn has plunged a knife into her heart. I hurt the one I love the most because I was thinking too much about my own selfish wants.
That has to change.
I've come a long way. I'm not the person I was. My behavior has changed dramatically but I can't let these weeds spout up in my garden.

I believe that I am calm. I know and accept that even if it was/is a trance I started it all and allowed it to take place.

I want today to be a new day. And I pray that by taking that step I am in the process of building a new tomorrow.

Thanks!