Recovery Nation

My husband has piddled at this "recovery" thing for so long now, it's pretty ridiculous when he makes "attempts" in my mind. Anyway, he's again talking about getting help, talking about calling counselors, talking about going to a 12 step group etc. Frankly, I don't take any of this seriously at all, as a matter of fact I take just the opposite, that it's part of his silly games of manipulation and ignore most of it. Well, last night he asks if I will help him understand the next lesson here on RN because he is having trouble understanding it. I told him I don't know if I want to do that or not, that I would think about it and get back to him.

Reading part of the ebook that Jon has on here was enough details for me to ever hear about sexual addiction honestly and I have no desire to put myself through that again, so I have never read any of the recovery workshop. Anyway, aside from reading something like that again, I don't mind helping him because he does sometimes have trouble understanding reading material, but I really don't want to have another experience with reading something on here that just seems to give all the details of a sexual addiction. So my question - has anyone read the workshop lessons and if you have, are they graphic like the book Jon wrote or more like the partner lessons, which only sometimes gets into sexual comparisons that seem extreme?

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"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.

Sorry Autumnrose,

I have not read any, but I would have the same concerns as you.

He could possibly print each lesson, and then ask you a specific question when it arises.

Butterflygirl

I have read a few of them, and they are fairly similar to the partners lessons. I've seen nothing there that was as personal or graphic as "He Danced Alone". But there are some examples provided in the lessons that might be triggering for you. If you care to say (or PM) which lesson, I'd be more than happy to read it for you and let you know if it contains any graphic examples. I've got a pretty thick skin for this kind of thing. Also, if he has specific questions, it seems that the support forum is always willing to answer, so he could maybe try there.

Hi Autumnrose,

This is a very wise and honest way to answer the question.

I have read the workshop in its entirety, more than once, but long ago. I believe the answer is "both". For the most part, it reads very much like the partners lessons. However, there are some lessons that are quite graphic.

Are you able to express this to him in a way that he would be able to understand that this is a values conflict for you? Is "I don't mind" the strongest feeling you have towards helping, or does this understate a stronger inclination to help? If you would really rather not help with this, let him know that he might get the best help from the recovery support forum. If you do want to help, I like Butterflygirl's suggestion. Maybe you can think of and communicate some specific boundaries, regarding the type of help you feel you can offer.

Minerva

Is he open to private coaching on RN? I suggest that he PM Coach Cheryl and ask her what she suggests. There may be lessons on tape, too.
Perhaps, a combination of listening and telephone counseling that would work for him.

Nellie

Thank you everyone for the input. I had intended to get back on here and read last night but got busy with life and then my book. Really enjoying reading novels again!!! Anyway....

We talked again last night after having a dumb little fight. The two of us are like programmed missiles going off - if he says this, I say that, if I do this, he does that. It's very frustrating to get so caught up in the dumb stuff.

Anyway, I asked him what the lesson was about and what he was having trouble with. He said the lesson is asking him to list what he has learned so far. I said okay what have you learned so far? Values are important and that he needs to make choices based on that. Sounds good. But he says it's not enough because people on here write tons more. We also talked about the fact that maybe he doesn't have much to say because maybe he isn't integrating anything he's reading. He said that probably is the case.

I don't know about this guy. There are days when it appears he is truly trying to get through this and then other days it's just a bunch of BS.

I did mention either hiring a coach or simply posting on the support forum as better options than me helping him. He seemed ho hum about the forum and not sure what he thinks about coaching. I don't know. Going into anything deeply with him is an exercise in frustration for me and I just don't like going there anymore. I feel myself getting looped in again and I don't like it. As I can't tell if any of this is genuine or not, I tend to lean towards 'not' and then just need to pull away.

Butterflygirl, thanks for the understanding.

Gorgon, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I have pretty thick skin at this point too with a lot of things and it's not triggering I am concerned about, it's just not something I want to spend my time reading if I don't have to. The little bit of Jon's book I read left me feeling strongly repulsed. I stopped because of that feeling. I also knew that couldn't possibly be the desired effect, that I knew that feeling wasn't helpful to anyone and that I just didn't want to spend my time reading such material.

Minerva - my inclination to help my husband is very fragile and can disappear within moments depending on he acts. It's frustrating to explain anything to my husband as it typically goes into a few scenarios: 1. I am a horrid, horrid man. (it's all about him, I disappear) 2. We all do that. You do it too. (minimizing, justifying etc.) 3. No that's not how you feel/think. (just making me a role, a thing rather than a person with the right to determine my own feelings and thoughts).

......Oh he drives me nuts when I get too close, so I have tended recently to keep it at a room-mate type relationship. Detachment. No sex. No intimate talks. No physical affection, at my request. No talking about anything outside of raising our son, bills, yard work etc. I even get frustrated when we try to have our weekly talks about recovery work because he has done nothing for several weeks now, so I have asked to stop these as well. Well, he "thinks about it all the time," as if that means anything at all.

I was feeling a little more comfortable in my distance because he is apparently aware of me pulling away and of course this leads to appeasement, charming, sweet guy which of course I finally remember is just part of his games and means absolutely nothing more than "I'm afraid you will leave."

Nellie - yes I suggested the coaching to him last night but didn't know about the possibility of recorded lessons. I will mention that to him before I close the topic with him.

Writing this post I realize I am still too volatile myself to "help" him. He either has to help himself or not. Until there is long term, sustained ACTION on his part, I feel I can not put myself in harm's way by believing one thing he SAYS. Kind of sad, because he plays and plays and plays and someday he may actually realize he wants a real life, not a play life but I am so used to the games with him, that is what I expect.

_________________

"What day is it,?" asked Pooh.
"It's today," squeaked Piglet.
"My favorite day," said Pooh.

They play games because it is one of the ways, perhaps the primary way, they learned to communicate as children. I don't believe they have a lot of insight into it until they get a fair way into their healing. It is dysfunctional and inhibits their healing but until they can see through themselves they can't seem to stop it.

My exH has finally got to the stage where he can see he is doing it just AFTER he does it! For those of you who are not familiar with our story, exH asked to continue living with me and the family as a boarder after our divorce. My conditions are that he continues in recovery, does not expose the children or me to any danger, maintains transparency and accountability, and is honest about slips in a timely manner.

Last weekend he went off to a lunch with two of his close relatives who are central to his FOO issues. I went out with other members of the family and when we got home that evening, we were greeted by exH who was obviously in an agitated state. Realizing that something had occurred and not wanting it to fester and cause issues for him, I asked him if he was okay and offered him the opportunity to talk.

He told me that his uncle had spontaneously confessed some traumatic stuff to him but that after the confession, he'd been post "confesssorially" instructed to keep it a secret. I have to say that this is typical of my in-laws. I've long been aware that uncle is struggling with issues that I am sure are similar to exH's. It is a family of secrets and countersecrets, mutterings behind people's backs and strange communications and miscommunications. One is either part of "the inner circle", or firmly in the outer circle; there are festering resentments and decisions made on behalf of people as to what they "have a right to know". The family is full of deceit, self-deceit, delusion and misinformation. Those of us who married into the family are NEVER part of the inner circle, although we are frequently affected by their decisions.

So, here was H, agitated and clearly needing to debrief, telling me that he was now the guardian of a "terrible family secret", the knowledge of which, he clearly couldn't handle. He said he had "been forced" to swear that he would never tell a living soul. I said "Right, you're not going to buy into that BS. You're going to tell your therapist, right?"

After a bit of thought he agreed but then things changed. H was struggling (he has over a week to wait for his next therapy session due to the holiday break), he wanted to reach out for more help and he has problems working out, honestly, what he needs and asking for it. So he started saying he was going to tell his therapist, then this person, then that person and ultimately, anybody but me. I said "Let me get this straight, you're saying that you have sworn you will not tell a living soul and now you are telling me that along with your therapist (which is a good thing), you are also going to tell A, B, C and D but that, just for the record, although you can share this information with all these people, you're not going to tell me? And you want me to know this?"

I said "This sounds like a children's game to me. I've got a secret and anyone can know except you! Are you trying to hurt me? What are you playing at?"

"The reason I'm not telling you" he spat, "is because you always laugh at uncle behind his back!"

This was so totally out of left field and unfair that I was speechless.

The look in ex's eyes, of the recognition of what he was doing took a little while. But eventually he came to me and apologized. He has also progressed far enough to have some insight into what he was playing at. He said that when he got home that evening, all he wanted to do was reach out and share with me but that he felt bound by this promise to secrecy that he felt had been forced upon him. Perhaps he hoped that I would try to wangle the story out of him so that he could then feel that it wasn't his fault; that the secret had been "forced" out of him. But I didn't oblige and he felt he would explode. He's both inexperienced at handling his emotions now that he isn't acting out and he sometimes lacks communication skills, particularly when he's trying to manage his new found emotions, so... he fell into the patterns that he's known all his life; game playing, melodrama and blame shifting.

The thing I'm trying to share is that this all came from a man who I'm convinced is genuine about recovery but it is a painful road with many potholes. He says he only realized what he was doing when the he was firing at me, at point blank range. He says all he wanted was to share with me and he was just feeling so frustrated, it came out before he recognized it for what it was. He says he never used to see what he was doing and now, all he wishes is, that he could pick it up BEFORE it comes out of his mouth.

I don't read these things as evidence that he is not genuine about recovery. Just that he cannot quickly undo the habits of a lifetime. I look for his willingness to examine these incidents after he calms down. His acceptance of the insights he gets and any evidence of progress, albeit slow and painful.

Learning to identify their own needs and ask for what they need; learning what is reasonable to ask for and how to negotiate what they require in an open and clear manner; these are skills that they have lacked all their lives and take them some time to acquire. It may seem simple and straightforward to many of us but this "game playing" style of communication often goes to the heart of FOO issues that promoted their problems in the first place. I suspect that when they get totally past this stuff, they're finally in a place of health. I'm guessing, for some of them, with the best intentions in the world, it may be a while before they really "get" this. Meanwhile, it's tough on us.

WOW! This is so familiar to me - my other life with my EX (H#1) almost 30 years ago. That "inner circle" mentality is still in my life through my children who were so impacted his family. So sad. I empathize with you.

Nellie James

Thank-you, Nellie. You're a treasure.