weak or strong - which are we?

Kenzo · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 pm

Whilst posting in my recovery thread I asked myself am I a weak or a strong person?

My ex told me that I am a weak person, a person that gave in to immediate sexual gratification and that I am so weak that any woman could click her fingers and have me

My response, is that weakness is relative, yes I was weak and I let my selfishness my penis rule my brain and life
however It takes a great deal of strength to recover
it takes a great deal of strength to open up admit to everything, to stop hiding from life, to beat all of that s**t

I know that I am strong enough to ensure that any woman cannot have me
I have been tempted during my recovery I have had urges and I have controlled them
I also told her immediately that I had been tempted
does any of this make a difference to our relationship ? NO
but it sure does make a massive difference to my relationship with myself

how do other addicts in recovery see ourselves?

is acting out taking the "easy route"
if so are we stronger because we achieve recovery?

is denial and lying taking the "easy route"
if so are we stronger because we need to be honest to achieve recovery?

I am sure that our SO,s would view us as weak and perhaps they are correct
Perhaps having a low self esteem demonstrates our weakness to ourselves?
I throw it open for comment

my question asked of myself and all fellow recoverers is

Quote:

am I a weak or a strong person?

my second question
does it really matter?

newme · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:24 pm **Posts:** 464

Hi Kenzo,

Good post. Totally agree it takes a great deal of strength to recover and how that graft and commitment can make a massive difference to our relationship with ourselves.

Quote:

my second question
does it really matter?

I'd say no. Labels such as weak/strong will always be too subjective, fluctuating and generalised to adequately define any one person. I had strong moments in my 'weak' days of addiction and I have weak moments in my 'strong' days of recovery. For a variety of reasons I never learned the skills necessary to live a healthy life. Now I'm learning and applying them. That's all that matters to me.

I certainly feel like a stronger person but the proof of the pudding is in my ability to outwardly demonstrate that inner strength by lifting the parts of my life I neglected when I felt weaker.

newme

Kenzo · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:22 pm

Hi newme

Quote:

I'd say no. Labels such as weak/strong will always be too subjective

and that is why I asked the second question
I used to label people including myself

I "objectified" but now no longer

stay well my friend, stay clean and stay in the present, looking to the future

SimpleMan · **Joined:** Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:31 pm **Posts:** 212

Depending on the day, the minute, the millisecond:

There is however a commonality between both statements: "I am".
Right now that's good enough for me :g:

HoneyCat · **Joined:** Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:15 pm **Posts:** 276

I remember reading a description of the understanding of what is God by describing the spiritual/mystic as a limitless ocean and we create our ideas of God(s) from this in ice like formations, each different, yet limited from our own understanding. These understandings melt and form and change over time and sometimes, with regards of lost religions, melt way back into that ocean.

The framework of labels of the human condition such as "addict" and "weak" and "strong", etc, are the same as our understanding of God. We create them from our limited understanding because we need a reference point to relate to one another. But these labels are only tools to be used and set aside or replaced later.

That does not mean that the label of "weakness" cannot be used to describe an aspect of your human condition or apparent actions. But they are very limited and should be treated as such.

Shaw72 · **Joined:** Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:54 am **Posts:** 1240

Hi Kenzo

A real interesting thread. I can see where your ex is coming from. But in the context of, say, masculine identity, weakness is a loaded word. I don't know if you have watched those TED lectures on shame and vulnerability. I think vulnerability might be a better word than weakness. Or in the terms that your ex used it, ease - our compulsive rituals are the easy way. Recovery means dealing with complexity.

There is a similar discussion in a book on attention issues. People who find it hard to concentrate are often pegged as lazy. In fact, they just find it hard to sit still for more than 23 seconds!!!

I guess my worry is that strength - weakness plays into our tendency to black and white thinking, our insecurities about our identity.

A very thought-provoking thread.

Shaw

Shaw72 · **Joined:** Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:54 am **Posts:** 1240

I just saw this excellent post on the thread about boredom - from Nellie James of the Partner's side:

Quote:

Yes. Vulnerability isn't about being weak. That's the common association. Vulnerability is more about taking the risk to take a stand, to be creative, to step into the arena and stand firm behind your values and be authentic. Sometimes we lose, when we do this, but it doesn't mean we are losers for trying. From my perspective, the problem is knowing who that authentic person is, especially in addictions, so you can step into the arena. For the SA, taking the risk is frightening because there is a fear of rejection, but at some point it has to happen if a relationship is to survive. For me, this figures in big time in transparency and communication. Both partners need to take the risk that comes with vulnerability. It gets us where we need to go.

My husband was bullied, too. The skinny little kid on the playground in a tough area of town. He had a female teacher who bullied him, too, hitting him on the head with a pitch pipe because he couldn't carry a tune and then threatening to tell his uncle when he cried. His dad died when he was two so he felt cheated out of fatherly activities. His mom couldn't handle problems well so he never felt safe talking to her about his feelings - he learned to intellectualize instead, to work hard (which was highly valued), and to sneak things past her to maintain the "good boy" image. All of this contributed to his non authentic sense of self....and so the process began early on of finding ways to feel validated outside himself. He told me a few years ago that he always felt something was wrong, but he didn't know what. After DDay and five months of couples counseling, he went through a year of private counseling and came to understand that acceptance has to come from within. He also became aware of his huge anger issues with his mother and step-father, his valuing work over his marriage and family, his being caught up in the Victim Triangle. But he also started learning how to actively manage himself in healthy ways. He did this and RN at the same time. :g:

He is now 62 and feels he's finally growing up and discovering who he is. :w:

Even knowing all the family background and feeling tremendous compassion for him, I still struggled with his very slow process in being open and honest with me - his need to still be seen as the "good boy." Giving myself the gift of patience was so important. RN has helped immensely with this. His shame has been a huge obstacle for both of us. Our couples counselor early on told him that he felt he was SHAME, and she worked hard to help him deal with his childhood issues and acknowledge his feelings. It has taken years for him to integrate this in his own mind and years to make peace with himself and his family. It's still in process, I think. Feeling like you are shame personified and not really understanding what that is - horrifying to anyone. Knowing that this begins in childhood - well - I think Brene Brown's book is a gift to all parents. :w:

It comes out in September and will probably be on Amazon - try our link. :w:

Nellie James

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